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Manny Ramirez to the Marlins?

Not much happened  Actually nothing happened in the Manny Ramirez trade rumor while you were sleeping.

But here is the latest news, which know already, and in no particular order.

The New York Times.

As bizarre as it sounded, the Florida Marlins were the latest team to be connected with Ramírez. Boston was talking to Florida, a team with a $22 million payroll, about their unhappy left fielder. Still, a baseball official who was monitoring the discussions said a deal was unlikely.

The Boston Globe.

A major league source with direct knowledge of the talks said that contrary to a report last night in the Palm Beach (Fla.) Post, a tentative agreement had not been reached on a three-way deal among the Sox, Marlins, and Pittsburgh Pirates, one in which Ramírez would go to the Marlins, the Sox would acquire outfielder Jason Bay and lefthanded reliever John Grabow from the Pirates, and outfielder Jeremy Hermida and a package of prospects would go to the Pirates. The Sox would pick up the balance of Ramírez's contract in this deal.

Personally if we are going to send Hermida and a couple of prospects to Pittsburgh, I would rather have Jason Bay and John Grabow than Manny Ramirez.  At least the two of them would improve the Marlins in certain ways.  (But more about that later.)

Oh, if you want to read the Palm Beach Post article The Boston Globe says is wrong: Here it is.

As I said, nothing new.

Since we all get to have an opinion, here is mine:  You've Have Got to be Kidding Me.

The Marlins need help with the bullpen, defense and we have a catching problem.  Last time I checked Manny Ramirez doesn't get lefties out, or catch. and he will probably make the defense worse.

It's not like the Marlins are having trouble hitting home runs or striking out, we do that better than anyone.  And when it comes to boneheaded plays on the field we are the Kings.  I really don't see the need to add to our strengths.

And then there is the problem of the circus coming to town.  One of the Marlins strengths is there is unity as a team.  Many of them have played together with little distraction and believe me Manny will be a distraction.  Should he come to Florida it will be interesting how the very professional Luiz Gonzalez and Manny get along.

For those of you who don't think Manny is a distraction, I could point to this:

The trade rumors created a stir inside the Marlins clubhouse, before and after their win against the Mets. Beinfest and other front-office members met behind closed doors with manager Fredi Gonzalez while players dressed and answered questions about the win and the trade reports.

''It's strange because that's the last thing on my mind, a trade rumor,'' said outfielder Josh Willingham, whose name also came up in some of the Ramirez trade reports.

Or this report of the same.

Willingham is the current left fielder, and it is unclear if he also may be part of a deal on Thursday.

"I hadn't heard anything about myself until today," Willingham said. "I'm sitting there and watching and you see yourself, and it's like, 'Whoa.' "

Reminded that the game is a business, Willingham added: "That's how you have to treat it. This is the only organization that I know. Until something happens, we'll cross that bridge when we get there."


But those are easy to dismiss since one could make the case after 4:00 p.m., things change.

But I need to remind you that someone who grabs a beloved 50+ year-old traveling secretary by the head and throws him down to ground, could end up being a bit of distraction.

But let's set all of that aside and get back to the baseball issue and how Manny Ramirez doesn't improve the team, or at least in my mind.

The interesting thing, which usually doesn't happen, the Saber guys agree with me.

Jeremy Hermidais no slouch himself. The in-seaosn Marcel tool has him at .276/.352/.458 for the rest of the season, compared to it’s .287/.386/.517 projection for the rest of Manny’s 2008. Clearly, Manny’s better, but like with the Teixeira-Kotchman trade, the upgrade isn’t huge.

In fact, over the course of 237 PAs (the projected total for Hermida), Marcel thinks the offensive difference between the two is about seven runs. The offensive difference… seven runs. Manny’s also a pretty horrible fielder (though the Green Monster makes most zone based stats overstate how bad), and the defensive difference between the two is nearly as large as the offensive difference (The Fielding Bible has Hermida as +4 plays so far in 2008 with Ramirez at -15). Even over two months, the defensive difference between the two will almost certainly be worth at least 3 or 4 runs, and that’s being really kind to Manny. It’s certainly possible that Manny is as bad as UZR, +/-, and the rest all think, and the defensive difference over two months is closer to 10 runs.

In fact, it’s arguable that this trade will actually make the Marlins worse for the rest of 2008.


When you factor both offense and defense into the equation, this is basically a push for Florida. This wouldn’t make them better by any real margin, and it would cost them significant future assets.

And that is one of, if not the, kindest to Manny Saber post I could find, the others get worse.

Also one thing not brought up by anyone I have read, is that Manny Ramirez will be changing leagues.  Normally, when a player changes leagues, even a good hitter, there is a period of adjustment when they normally don't perform to their usual level.

Example: Miguel Cabrera moving to the AL.  Before the All-Star break he was hitting .284/.349/.489, not bad, but not up to the standards one would expect from Cabrera.  After the All-Star game he is hitting .368/.393/.596.

In other words, should Manny Ramirez need time to adjust there just aren't enough games left in the season to allow him to prove he was worth the expense.

And anyways, didn't Beinfest say he wanted to get back to the Marlins blueprint of old: pitching and defense.  Manny provides none of that.

I know many of you disagree with me, that's cool.  It wouldn't be any fun if we agreed on everything.

But as said earlier, if we are going to give up Hermida and some prospects to Pittsburgh, send me Bay and Grabow.  Or preferably, let's send lesser prospects and get Doumit and Grabow.

Now, that would be a good trade.