The Winter Meetings

by craig on Dec 4, 2007 6:16 PM EST in News and Rumors

Rumors are flying everywhere, but this is the latest.

The Tigers and Marlins are hammering out the final details on an eight-player trade that would send third baseman Miguel Cabrera and left-handed starter Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a left-hander Andrew Miller, outfielder Cameron Maybin and four other prospects.

We will see.

[Update: 8:53 p.m.] The trade is still preliminary but according to ESPN it is suppose to be finalized tonight. In case you haven't heard all the names:

Tigers offered

Cameron Maybin
Andrew Miller
Mike Rabelo
Eulogio De La Cruz
Burke Badenhop
Dallas Trahern

Marlins offered

Miguel Cabrera
Dontrelle Willis

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Moving to this thread...

Dear Santa,

xoxo,
dan

by dan 2.0 on Dec 4, 2007 6:22 PM EST reply actions

Nice

Here I am, brain the size of a planet...

by HadMatter on Dec 4, 2007 6:25 PM EST reply actions

_

"This will all end in tears, I just know it."

Here I am, brain the size of a planet...

by HadMatter on Dec 4, 2007 6:29 PM EST up reply actions

Damn

I read that link earlier and thought it would be tantamount to suicide and they would NEVER be dumb enough to do that.
How wrong was I? We're never going to win another championship. No one is going to go to games. Hanley and all our good young pitchers will be traded away like Cabrera and Willis.
This is ridiculus. I honestly don't know if I have the stomach to be a Marlins fan.
I'd rather have Ross and Amezega platoon in center than Cameron ".143" Maybin.

I'm doin the Fish again. (Yeah, yeah, yeah.)

by colombo259 on Dec 4, 2007 6:27 PM EST reply actions

That's ridiculous.

.143 in less than 50 Major League at-bats.

Maybin is more highly regarded (though admittedly perhaps further away) now than Hanley was at the time of that trade. And Miller is far better regarded than Anibal was (probably better than Anibal is currently regarded).

I can absolutely understand the disappointment that yet again, a star is being traded rather than getting paid. You won't find bigger Cabrera fans than those of us here; I'd give him 10/$250m in a heartbeat.

But we weren't going to keep him. Simply put, he wasn't going to be here in two years time. Dontrelle is still a draw, but as I've said time and again, he's been trending down for three years. Maybe Wiley fixes him; maybe he doesn't. But if he makes Miller available, you have to do it. No, nobody will show up. But they weren't showing up anyway.

And while you can't say anything for certain, this trade only makes it more likely Hanley gets locked up.

by dan 2.0 on Dec 4, 2007 6:39 PM EST up reply actions

I know, you're right

About Maybin. I'm just upset right now.
But really, jsprt and I were talking and he pointed out that even stud prospects like him are only 50/50 shots. Jeremy was a huge prospect like Maybin, and he's just an average hitter (and below average fielder).
The Miller part I'm happy about. The catcher? Isn't he like, old?
And the fact that no one came out to games even with Cabrera and Willis was because Loria will not spend any of the money he hoards. God, at least Huizenga spent money and got people to come out.
I'm just very disillusioned with thi franchise. It makes me sick. We are probably the most loyal fans in all of MLB, even if we don't have the history of other teams. We don't deserve this crap. We can't build teams if every few years we trade our franchise player away because we're too damn cheap to pay them.
Man, I want to rip my hair out.

I'm doin the Fish again. (Yeah, yeah, yeah.)

by colombo259 on Dec 4, 2007 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

relax

this is an excellent trade.

miller and maybin are STUDS.

we get maybe our starting catcher out of the deal as well, and de la cruz is a top bullpen arm.

our payroll is now lower than last years.

we can actually spend money on reasonable free agents if we wish.

the marlins are ballers. dont despair. this is 2007 not 1998.

I can't believe Mike doesn't remember Ocala - he was having a GREAT time!

by jrfelix on Dec 4, 2007 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

We could

But do you really think that we're going to spend that money on free agents? I don't.
That doesn't bode well. Attendance has already gone drastically down as a result of this trade, and it essentially kills any hope of getting a new stadium, unless of course they use the money they're saving to put towards construction or whatever other costs. Which is also unlikely.
Well, at least they pulled the trigger quick. I think this is a better trade than what Anaheim was offering.

I'm doin the Fish again. (Yeah, yeah, yeah.)

by colombo259 on Dec 5, 2007 12:06 AM EST up reply actions

Oh God...

What a horrible trade. Miller is good but the rest are spare parts.

Cabrera, I like him but I could take him or leave him, and he had no chance of staying. But WILLIS! The humanity. Jesus.

by Bumppo on Dec 4, 2007 6:39 PM EST reply actions

LOL

Maybin is a spare part?

by Sashimi on Dec 4, 2007 7:03 PM EST up reply actions

I've heard good things and bad

And based on what I saw of him personally he can't hit the curveball.

He's like...spinners. Sometimes attractive, but still a spare part.

by Bumppo on Dec 4, 2007 7:12 PM EST up reply actions

You've got to be kidding me...

This is a kid that Baseball America rated the 7th best prospect in all of baseball. That Baseball Prospectus rated 8th best. That John Sickels rated 16th best.

I'd try to come up with a witty/snarky category that would actually cause him to be considered a "spare part" but I can't even think of one.

Utter nonsense.

by dan 2.0 on Dec 4, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions

Correction

BA 6th and BP 7th.

by dan 2.0 on Dec 4, 2007 7:28 PM EST up reply actions

Just personal feelings

If he's great I'll eat crow.

by Bumppo on Dec 4, 2007 8:21 PM EST up reply actions

Why does it seem like

Dontrelle is the throw-in here? The Tigers' package would be great for Cabrera alone. It'd even be fine for Cabrera and an added prospect. But I don't see the huge value upgrade we're getting for adding Willis in versus the Cabrera-only deals that were rumored with L.A. and Anaheim.

I have almost fanatical faith in Beinfest, but this trade leaves me somewhat disappointed and worried.

by Fishcrazy on Dec 4, 2007 8:01 PM EST up reply actions

Willis is a wild-card

What is his value? He could be come the next Livan Hernandez--an average pitcher who at least stays healthy and eats innings. If you adjust for age and are trading Livan Hernandez and Cabrera it looks a lot better.

At the same time, maybe he wins 20 next year for that Tigers lineup.

by DoubleB on Dec 4, 2007 9:10 PM EST up reply actions

This is a pretty decent haul

for two more years of Cabrera and Willis, especially if we weren't going to compete for a championship in those two years anyway.

by Sashimi on Dec 4, 2007 11:44 PM EST up reply actions

Huh!?!

Maybe this was a calculated move by Loria to have enough money for a stadium.

Yea, right

"This will all end in tears, I just know it."

by HadMatter on Dec 4, 2007 6:47 PM EST reply actions

You know it was coming...

But it doesn't make it hurt any less. At least until April.

by brickell on Dec 4, 2007 7:05 PM EST reply actions

I can't believe it...

Not Willis...
It's true that it was expected, but I still didn't think they would trade them both. And it appears that they were traded for very little.
It's hard to be a Marlins fan...

by FSUMarlins on Dec 4, 2007 7:20 PM EST reply actions

my favorite

A quote form the Detroit Free Press comments section :

"Yes, Virginia, there is a Dombrowski."

They all seem pretty happy with the trade. That's never a good thing.

by brickell on Dec 4, 2007 7:31 PM EST reply actions

Let's cut them some slack

There are many negative things that can be made regarding the Marlin front office. Their ability to make a trade is not one of them. This franchise has a terrible stadium with poor fan support and no payroll and yet has shown an ability to be, at worst, competitive (last year being, what I hope is, an aberration). The only reason for that is that they know what they're doing on the trade front. Not every trade has worked out perfectly, but they have done a great job identifying raw talent. Until they completely blow one, I'm certainly willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this trade.

by DoubleB on Dec 4, 2007 7:51 PM EST reply actions

foreseeable mediocrity

The biggest issue i see here is that the team is doomed to mediocrity for the next couple years. when you lose cabrera you lose the cornerstone of the offense. There is nothing they can do to replace his stats. I cannot perceive any of the present players stepping up in his absence. Unless Uggla, Jacobs, Hermida, or Willingham become markedly better in the next year I think we can look forward to some pretty high draft picks. However, in 3 years, who knows what will happen with the health of all the young pitching talent (look at '03 team for instance)? Just grin and bear it for now I suppose.

From what I hear from Tigers' fans, Miller and Maybin are not something to be embarrassed about in the least. (But I guess neither is having the MVP next year--realistically either Miggy or Mags is winning it in that lineup without a doubt.)

by GMFB on Dec 4, 2007 8:27 PM EST reply actions

fishstripes logo

has anyone noticed that the fish on the top left resembles a sailfish more than a marlin?

by GMFB on Dec 4, 2007 8:30 PM EST reply actions

There's got to be more moves coming

Okay, I'm be willing to at least give this trade a fighting chance if I could see how this did not help us very much. Okay, yes, Willis and Cabrera were due to make a lot of money that the front office doesn't want to pay. However, we now have one more whole in the rotation (and this is assuming that Miller is a lock for the rotation, which he may not be) and we still haven't addressed the catcher situation unless this catcher we got is supposed to be the answer (which is a really scary thought). I guess we now have spending money to got get someone on the free agent market but, seriously, why? We have better prospects than what's available on the free agent market. And, now that we traded both Miggy and Dontrelle, we lost our best barginning chips to get a good starter.

I guess this is making me worried about this trade now. No more sitting on the fench.

by mbaamin08 on Dec 4, 2007 9:57 PM EST reply actions

Correction

I mean good, experienced starter. We already have really good starting pitching prospects.

by mbaamin08 on Dec 4, 2007 10:00 PM EST up reply actions

And one more thing

Now we don't have a third baseman, do we? We didn't even get another infielder so that we could move Uggla to third.

Ugh! I need to quit worrying before I blow a gasket.

by mbaamin08 on Dec 4, 2007 10:07 PM EST up reply actions

Meet the new Marlins

Just found this article detailing the 6 prospects the Fish received. I'm still not feeling much better about this.

by mbaamin08 on Dec 4, 2007 10:30 PM EST reply actions

Free agents

I've keep seeing the idea that this move frees up money for free agents. What free agents are going to give us what Willis and Miggy gave us for the costs? Arbitration would have cost money, but nothing compared to what the free agent market costs. I thought that's why we were trading them now, because we didn't have to. Yet it seems like that's the deal we got.

by brickell on Dec 5, 2007 10:10 AM EST reply actions

This move was not about FA money

It was based on an assessment by the FO that we did not have a good chance of being a competitive team in the next year even with Cabrera, and probably not in 2009 either, so now was the time to get maximum, though not necessarily equal, value for him.

by Sashimi on Dec 5, 2007 12:41 PM EST reply actions