Ichthyomancy 2.0

by mike42 on Jun 20, 2005 9:06 AM EDT in News and Rumors

Since today is an off-day (for the Marlins at least), we will have a Festivus-style airing of everyone's grievances with Ichthyomancy.

Leave your comments and thoughts below. Starting tomorrow, we will begin using a more refined points awarding system.

Here is my proposal:

One attendance point to be awarded per game. No half points. Multiple people can earn a point only if they estimate the exact same attendance. Price is Right rules apply (i.e. closest to the actual number, without going over, wins).
A maximum of three Marlins (and/or opponents, if a fan of the opponent is playing) can earn points for people in any given game. That doesn't mean that points will be awarded for three players in each game, just that there will never be more than three. This will identify only the players who contributed the most to the day's win. While this probably won't be needed all the time, it will be helpful in instances like last week's blowouts against the Cubs, when pretty much everyone in the lineup put up sparkling lines.
Each person can make a maximum of one "above and beyond" pick per game. Actually, you can make as many such picks as you want, but if you make more than one, you must designate which one you want to count towards points. The goal here is two-fold: one, to make things easier for me to score, and two, to award points for excellent prognostication - not just for making enough picks that you eventually get some right.

Also, if anyone is willing to do the work (objectively), we could incorporate win probability added into the mix. This would be helpful in awarding player points. It's tedious, and a lot for someone to sign up (thus, I'm not doing it), but I'm sure you'd learn a lot from it too.

And last, but not least, if you're lurking around the site, but don't participate in ichthyomancy, feel free to add your thoughts. After the all-star break we will have a second-half component to ichthyomancy, so you'll be able to start up with everyone and be on equal footing. (For those of you who have been playing all year, we'll have a full year component and a second-half piece too. And yes, prizes will be announced eventually too.)

Thoughts?

(Keep in mind that I have struck out on my own here and that Craig, the father of Ichthyomancy and the site lawyer, will likely need to step in later to settle any disputes and to make sure that we are staying true to the meaning of Ichthyomancy.)

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Also

If no one suggests anything, we'll start using my proposed scoring system, as posted above, tomorrow.

by mike42 on Jun 20, 2005 9:20 AM EDT reply actions

Ummm...

I don't like any of the changes (mainly b/c they're repeals of all my proposals). I really like it the way it is b/c it allows us all a chance to get points and not feel like we're slipping away down the chart.

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 20, 2005 3:41 PM EDT reply actions

Also...

If my fish tell me a lot of stuff (these AREN'T guesses, after all, they're actual fish), how would it be true to the spirit of ichthyomancy to deny them their right to free speech thru me?

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 20, 2005 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

It may be the fish you are buying

In order to win at ichthyomancy 2.0 we'll all need fish that make high quality picks, not high quantity.

by mike42 on Jun 20, 2005 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

My fish make quality picks along with quantity. And besides, nothing's stopping anybody else's fish from talking more. ;)

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 20, 2005 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions

If It's Any Consolation...

... I buy my fish at Publix. :-D

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 20, 2005 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Studying the proposal

I request a postponement of the new rules until after the Braves series. I believe this will allow all parties time to consider the proposed changes and time to formulate any possible suggestions.

by craig on Jun 20, 2005 11:38 PM EDT reply actions

According to Robert's Rules of Order

I second that motion.

Ok, so I don't think Robert's apply here, but I just wanted to agree with that.

by fishfan24 on Jun 21, 2005 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions

The One...

... I hate most is the "Price is Right" one. Adding that one to this game would really take all the fun out of it, b/c we have to be careful to underguess.

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 21, 2005 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions

He has spoken

We will wait and revisit this after Thursday's game/before Friday's game. For the next three games, standard ichthyomancy scoring will apply.

by mike42 on Jun 21, 2005 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions

My Humble Opinion

Rule #3 - is good to go.

Rule #2 - I would set the visitors in a different category in player selection. Example: Say Dex and two other folks from gaslamp ball show up, Dex selects B. Giles who goes 4 for 4 with 4 HR, another selects P. Nevin who hits for the cycle and the last selects T. Hoffman to get the save (a gutsy call since it implies a Padres win and the game is in the balance in the ninth). Say all of this comes true.

Say danielfred1235 selects Sea Bass who also hits for the cycle, Carolina selects Delgado who goes 3 for 3 with 3 HR and fishfan24 selects Pierre who hits 4 triples.

Naturally in this example you, wiggins, DoubleB, seamusfurr, jsprt05 and I choose Lenny Harris who doesn't see action.

Anyway the point is daniel, Carolina and fishfan shouldn't be penalized because our good friends at gaslamp decided to play.

I feel our honored guest should their points and so should our Fish Stripes faithful.

The attendance should be commingled.

Rule 1 - I do not agree with the Price is Right scoring. That type of bidding my make good game show television but it doesn't belong in Icthyomancy. In Icthyomancy the closest is the closest, over under doesn't matter, it's the closest.

These are my opinions, others my differ.

by craig on Jun 22, 2005 3:15 AM EDT reply actions

One possible addendum to Rule #1

If someone makes multiple selections, i.e. Niner doubles in the 6th, D-Train to hit a pinch hit HR and Jack to get tossed. She/He must be willing to stand by all of them, in other words it's all or nothing. This would allow those of us who will be behind Carolina by 47 points on the last day of season the chance to catch a miracle and catch up.

Just a thought.

by craig on Jun 22, 2005 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions

I meant Rule #3

by craig on Jun 22, 2005 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Ooh - I like this

We have a winner. All or nothing on the above and beyond picks.

by mike42 on Jun 22, 2005 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I Find This...

... much more fair than the original suggestion. (I'm guessing that there will be multiple points if multiple predictions come true, i.e. 3 predictions = 3 points?) I suppose this was my only real problem with the new rules, other than the TPIR attendance.

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes, to me that is implied

that you would recieve a point for every prediction if all are correct.

by craig on Jun 23, 2005 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Not necessarily

I think it depends on the particular pick. If you predict that Cabrera is going to hit third (or fourth, whatever) tonight, that's not really going out on a limb. If you take Sea Bass to hit for three-fourths of the cycle - with a homer in the second, a double in the 4th, and a triple in the 7th - then that's probably worth more.

by mike42 on Jun 23, 2005 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I was assuming...

that the predictions would not be of the sun will set in the west variety.

Those that are should garner nothing, in my opinion.

by craig on Jun 23, 2005 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

Just felt the need to state the obvious today.

by mike42 on Jun 23, 2005 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions

It probably needed to be stated.

by craig on Jun 23, 2005 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Ummm...

Do we ever make predictions like that? :-P

It's far better to uphold the Constitution and burn the flag than it is to hold up the flag and burn the Constitution.

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

You probably wouldn't...

but me, in the throes of desparation will try anything. It never works but I try it anyway. :-)

by craig on Jun 23, 2005 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, Then...

I see the clarification helps in your case. ;-) Not that you need any help, you're only a point behind Carolina. :-P

It's far better to uphold the Constitution and burn the flag than it is to hold up the flag and burn the Constitution.

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I may have more on Rule #2

And I may not. I am contemplating the effects of a maximum limit on the number of winners without a minimum limit. (and no, zero is not a minimum under this rule set)

by craig on Jun 22, 2005 5:05 AM EDT reply actions

Well...

I'm all for a non-zero limit, but what if something like (God forbid) a perfect game happens? How do you choose the person who merits points? Whoever made the best defensive plays?

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Attendance

Those of you who feel strongly about the Price is Right/Blackjack rule for attedance should make your case known now. Otherwise, Craig's argument has swayed me to go with the "closest to the pin" philosophy.

by mike42 on Jun 22, 2005 1:25 PM EDT reply actions

One More Vote For...

... "closest to the pin." :D

Daniel (RPI c/o 2006) Go Marlins!

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

One Last Clarification

The player we pick for the game, the attendance, and above-and-beyond are three separate instances, right? We can get a point for our player w/o being right about all the above-and-beyond? (Just wanna make sure everything's letter perfect in my mind.)

It's far better to uphold the Constitution and burn the flag than it is to hold up the flag and burn the Constitution.

by danielfred1235 on Jun 23, 2005 7:20 PM EDT reply actions