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Who We Should Trade? What's Your Call?

Now the talk off the trade deadline is coming around, and heres who i think we could trade:

1:unfortunately Dan Uggla (we need something legit) 

2:Cody Ross (ehh if we get something good im fine)

3:Jorge Cantu (who will take his spot though?? Dominguez??)

4:Nate robertson (no big loss)

5:ANDREW MILLER (we need him off our hands)

6:Mike Lamb (has no purpose for this team)

7:Ozzie Martinez (huge trade bait considering he has no position in the majors w/ hanley here)

Can you name some others? if we do trade the big 3 who will take their spots immediately? And what type of player would you like in return? I'd like a lefty starter and a good one (madison bumgarner would b nice) not like a nate robertson, a actual good lefty pinch hitter (matt stairs like, but younger) and some relief.

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If we trade Uggla

it will be so Cogz can shift to his natural position, and my guess is LoMo will come up to play LF.

Cantu would get a solid return, but Dominguez isn’t ready. My guess is that would open the door for bonifacio to play more (not good) or helms (not an upgrade). Gaby can play third, but why would you do that when his defense is suspect enough at 1st.

Nate is definitely a possibility to trade, and I would add Helms to your list, though I think the fish like his as a future coach down the line. Ross I could see getting moved for a couple middle relievers.. sadly. I think he’s the most likely to get traded, which is hard to swallow.

No way Ozzie gets traded. They wouldn’t move him unless we were in contention and needed a Cliff Lee like push.

I’d like to see them turn around Miller and Maybin for something nice, but it won’t happen.

BUT, I don’t think we’ll see as many trades as we think. Loria already made an ass out of himself this year, his ego needs this team to get better and contend this season. Don’t forget, “we have all the ammunition we need” to make the playoffs.

by jrsyeagle on Jul 5, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

A quick reminder about trades, everyone

Teams only make trades if the players acquired have some semblance of surplus value, value beyond what they are being paid for. Now there is some wiggle room around that rule (for example, there is a lack of availability of middle infielders, so Uggla may fetch a bit more than his surplus value), but for the most part teams won’t give up pieces for the right to pay players what they are worth. Theoretically they can go to the free agent market and do the same thing.

For higher-end guys, this holds a bit less for the reason I mentioned. But for low-end guys like Robertson and Helms, why would a team trade for them when they either already have someone similar or can easily sign a player from free agency? Those guys are close to replacement level, and young players or minor league free agents can offer similar production.

Uggla and Ross are really the only players who hold any value and are available (Nolasco as well, if the team is interested in trading him). Uggla will net a B or so prospect plus some filler, Ross maybe a B-level prospect, assuming we pay the remainder of their salaries.

Cantu would NOT get anything back. He’s not under team control next year, and he’s probably being paid almost what he’s worth production wise this year. There are better options at 1B available to most clubs, and most teams are aware that he’s an Uggla-level (if not worse) butcher at third base with the glove.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 5, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why would we trade Nolasco?

So we can end up with another black hole in the bullpen? Our bullpen is bad enough as it is, we need Nolasco! JJ and Anibal Sanchez are not enough to hold this team above water.

What's more frustrating than being a Marlins and Orioles fan? Eye surgery???

by Osley Sallent on Jul 5, 2010 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Nobody would trade for Mike Lamb

Nor would they trade for Wes Helms. There might be someone crazy enough to trade a very low grade prospect for Emilio Bonifacio or Jorge Cantu, but that’s about it. Uggla and Cody are the true trade values on the team, but neither are gonna land a really prized prospect unless a team becomes very desperate.

Chris Coghlan is NLRoY 2009 (that's a +1 for me!)

by ocelotfox on Jul 6, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

so cantu is worth a low grade prospect? he plays 3B and gets 100 RBI

by Colt1235 on Jul 8, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He plays third base poorly, has only slightly above average power, and makes tons of outs

Guys with an OBP of .320 need to slug .480+ or play good defense to be really valuable. Cantu does neither, and that’s his problem.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 8, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

hanley

prospects, prospects, prospects

You gotta hate to lose more than you want to win

by alwaysafan on Jul 7, 2010 9:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Hanley's not going anywhere anytime soon

Uggla will be the first to get traded, and my guess is to the Rockies based on everything I read. My guess is we’d target a catcher and pitching.. maybe a 3B if they have one since our prospect isn’t anywhere near ready…

by jrsyeagle on Jul 7, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Uggla but he will be missed

this guy gets some big knocks every year, but especially because he is hot right now, I see him leaving. I wonder how bad the injury to Pedroia is and if the Bosox want him.

as a Met fan I woul dlove him on my team, if for nothing else so I don’t have to face him anymore. but I do not see that

by Rickfansince76 on Jul 8, 2010 7:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Ross

annoucers love this guy, so i figure GMs and managers do too, so many teams woul dbe interested

by Rickfansince76 on Jul 8, 2010 7:11 AM EDT reply actions  

They'd be interested, but not because announcers like them

I’ve found announcers are more clueless (or at least sound more clueless) than any other mouthpieces around teams.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 8, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

i heard something about Uggla for Ianetta (Rockies)..

maybe they can throw in some decent bullpen/minor league pitchers

by xquiles21x on Jul 8, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

That would be ridiculous for us

Ianetta is one of the best young catchers in baseball. It’s a shame he’s buried behind a terrible one like Miguel Olivo. In addition, he’s signed for two more years after this (I think) under very team-friendly terms. If this were to happen, this would be a coup for the Marlins.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 8, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

bite your tongue

olivo is great

You gotta hate to lose more than you want to win

by alwaysafan on Jul 8, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than this season, not really

He’s decent defensively, but has perhaps the worst eye for the strike zone in all of baseball

by SFiercex4 on Jul 8, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

wha??

iannetta (age 27) is a career .240 hitter who also strikes out 27% of the time. he’s making 1.75 mill this year.
olivo strikes out 27% of the time too.

other than a relatively low contract what is so good about this guy

by byoung on Jul 9, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Both Olivo and Ianneta are low contact guys

The difference is while Olivo walks in 4% of his PA, Iannetta for his career has walked 13% of the time. As a result, their lines are as follows:

Iannetta, career: .240/.359/.448, .352 wOBA
Olivo, career: .249/.286/..433, .306 wOBA

The difference? Olivo makes A LOT more outs than Iannetta. They have similar power and contact, but because of the extra outs Olivo makes, Iannetta is worth about 2 more wins in a full season.

Walks/OBP aren’t always the pivotal difference between players, but in this case, it definitely is.

BTW, as proof of the difference in the approach between the two. Since 2002, Olivo has swung at 72.6% of pitches in the strike zone and 36.1% of those out of the zone. For Iannetta’s career (starting in 2006), he has swung at 71.9% of pitches in the zone and a drastically different 17.4% of pitches out of the zone. In other words, Iannetta has a better eye for what a ball is than Olivo.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 10, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, just for fun

Don’t know if a major league hitter should be doing this at any point in his career:

In case you can’t tell, that’s Miguel Olivo swinging at a ball that is an inch above the plate. I’m pretty sure that, unless your name is Vladimir Guerrero, you can’t do that.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 10, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

sweet....

although ianetta only swings at strikes he still has more strikeouts than hits in his career.

any way you look at it if we were trade uggla straight up for this guy it would be embarassing.
swing the numbers any way you want it, but this guy is 27, has more Ks than Hs, & is a career .240 BA. may be he gets better, but lets not act like he’s a top, upcoming prospect

by byoung on Jul 11, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dan Uggla, career numbers

Hits: 692
K: 694

Uggla is 30, and he has a similar problem.

The key is to not get hung up on average, of all things. Think of Iannetta as a mini-Uggla (more plate patience/discipline, less power) who plays catcher and is on a team-friendly deal for three years. Being a catcher is already a huge boon to your value. If he hits at 3/4 the level of Uggla (which is pretty likely, unless he falls apart), we’d be at least even given the scarcity of catchers. Then consider that Uggla is likely to not be in a Marlins uniform next year anyway, and it’s a pretty sweet deal.

I’m using the numbers to try and convince you, but I think you’re not going to listen and instead harp on his .240 AVG and high K totals. There’s more to hitting than AVG. Power and not making outs are more important.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 11, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to harp on the whole "K more than H" thing, but...

Here’s a list of players since 1961 with more K than H and an OPS+ above 100.

Not every guy there hit .240 obviously, but a lot of them ended up with pretty decent careers. And, to be honest, you don’t have to be that good of a hitter to be a good catcher; catchers are very valuable even as league average hitters. Iannetta was an average hitter in 2009 even after adjusting for Coors Field, and he only batted .228 (.228/.344/.460).

by SFiercex4 on Jul 11, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uggla for Ianetta sounds too good...

I can’t believe the Rockies would be stupid enough to have that much faith in Olivo.

by tdp992 on Jul 13, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rockies fan here

If we did, we have a top 50 catching prospect (Willin Rosario) in Double A who’s 21, an MLB ready catcher (Mike McKenry, projects as below average starter) to replace him, and Jordan Pacheco in A+ (Old for his level, but shows a lot of bat control, besides, catchers develop slower as well).

Even with that, I’d hate to give up Iannetta, but if we did, we have people to replace him and faith in Olivo, who has increased his walk rate tremendously this year (already has surpassed his season high in walks).

by MattBerger on Jul 14, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally

I say deal Uggla and Cantu for 4-5 prospects. Ill miss both though.

by Gokyle45 on Jul 9, 2010 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Cantu won't net anything

Out of 23 qualifying 3B this season, Cantu’s offensive production (represented by wOBA) is ranked 16th, only ahead of (among others): Alberto Callaspo, Pablo Sandoval, Jose Lopez, Chase Headley, and Miguel Tejada. Of those teams with worse hitting 3B, only two (the Giants and Padres) are in contention. The Giants are set in the infield, as Sandoval is their future on offense, and the Padres are likely to get similar production from Cantu as they would from Headley if Cantu moved to Petco Park.

Ross and Uggla do have value, and that is why they are the most likely trade targets. Dealing either or both would be smart, with Uggla being the preferable choice, since he’ll cost the most next year.

by SFiercex4 on Jul 14, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

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