Uggla to stick around for '10

by cpmustangs13 on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM EST Comment 18 comments

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-marlinsspending&prov=ap&type=lgns

I'm sure there are some situations in which he would still be traded, but it's still nice to hear that we are at least promising to keep our talent around for a strong run. Uggla's not my favorite type of player, but he fills a valuable hole in this team's production, and you can't say enough about that. Here's to hoping we can keep him around after 2010 also.

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i kind of want us to trade him

he strikes out too much for me

i like him, but i dont know, i just kind of want him to be traded

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by finzrule on Jan 21, 2010 6:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i sort of feel the same way

But people are saying if we traded him Coghlan would stay in LF and bonifacio would start at 2B which would be a horrible move… If it keeps boni out of the lineup i’d rather let danny stay,

by tdp992 on Jan 21, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and also

Now that Pineiro’s off the market I don’t think there’s anything better we could spend the $8 million on besides Uggla. My favorite scenario would’ve been to trade Uggla, put Cogs at second, start BC in RF, and then use the money to sign Pineiro to a deal like he just got from the Angels.

by tdp992 on Jan 21, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nailed it

I’ve got the BC+CC plan as being worth around 1 win less than having Uggla and CC in left. Right now, there’s no area where the team can improve 1 or more wins from free agent signings. If we just wanted to save money, that’s one thing. But if the team wanted to compete and not give up wins, it may not be worth it.

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by SFiercex4 on Jan 22, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brett Carroll?

You mean the guy whose .689 OPS last year… was the best season of his career by far? How is it okay to start that guy, and not okay to start Bonifacio? I mean, okay, he’s a little better than Bonifacio as a hitter — not much better, but a little. But he’s also a corner outfielder.

I mean, I’m all for moving Coghlan into the infield. Coghlan is a plus hitter as a second or third baseman but a liability as a left fielder. But hell, there are dudes on waivers who can play left field and are better hitters than Brett Carroll. There are dudes playing in independent leagues. There’s no excuse for a corner outfielder to have an OPS below .700. None.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Jan 22, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If his glove makes up for it...

then I don’t see a problem. I think a lot of people here underrate BC’s defense, it’s not just his arm, he also has amazing range, takes great routes, etc etc. Between his glove and his bat last year he netted 10 runs above average (in just 158 PA), compared to Hermida who was 7.5 runs below average, considering he had an average bat and an awful glove.

I realize Brett’s defensive numbers will probably regress a little bit away from the 54 UZR/150 he put up last year if we made him a full time starter in 2010, but him putting up a UZR of around 20 isn’t out of the question. He’d no doubt be more productive than Boni or Hermida as a starter.

by tdp992 on Jan 23, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's a corner outfielder.

I know he’s a good defender, but how much impact does a corner outfielder’s defense have on the game?

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Jan 23, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well

A +20 defender in RF/LF would be pretty much have the same impact as a +12 defender in center.

Carl Crawford’s glove has been one of the reasons Tampa’s been good the past couple years, so a really good defending corner OF can make an impact.

by tdp992 on Jan 23, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A +20 defender in RF/LF is also more or less unheard of

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by dan 2.0 on Jan 23, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say BC's more like +13 in the corners / 150 games

We won’t be playing him that much likely. Let’s assume +10 (a good corner outfielder).

Most systems (including my own projections) have BC at .300 wOBA, around -10 runs in around 400 PA. At 400 PA, he’s played maybe 115 games (maybe closer to 110). At 115 games, assuming an average number of chances, he’d be at +7 or so runs on defense. Take away 5 of those runs for being a corner OF. That’s 0.5 WAR, not good, but OK.

It’s not the only thing that goes into the equation of course. There’s a potential improvement from going to Coghlan from Uggla on defense as well, along with the improvement of going from Coghlan’s defense to Carroll’s defense.

I had the BC+CC plan as worth about a win less than just keeping Uggla and CC where they are (this was with a more optimistic projection for BC’s defense though, so take it with a grain of salt). I kind of don’t want to see what actually happens though.

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by SFiercex4 on Jan 23, 2010 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+20 isn't likely

I wouldn’t be surprised if he were a +15 type outfielder. At +13 (a rare talent, but a possibility), he would be worth 1 win, and I’d imagine that would be fine even with a .300 wOBA.

That being said, I don’t think Uggla’s going anywhere soon, so I won’t get excited about it. There are still guys available to be signed as platoon partners for BC if the team is dealing Uggla (Endy Chavez and Randy Winn are my trendy picks).

Marlin Maniac, a Florida Marlins blog
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Check me out at Beyond the Box Score as well.

by SFiercex4 on Jan 23, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually like the plan with bonifacio at second everyone saw his first game what he can do. everyone also saw all season that he couldn’t get a bunt down and his average was terrible. Its his second season in the organization and actually being in the majors i think he learns alot and steps up to be a big player for us.

by dutchmaster75 on Jan 22, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I glad someone found a sabermetric to push Brett Carroll

Overalls I guess his bat was not that productive, but he seemed to get a number of crucial game winning hits out of proportion to his PAs. Apparently the concept of clutch is anathema to the brave new world of sabermetrics, but BC’s fielding speaks for giving him a chance. I get the feeling that BC would defend himself well at bat as a regular.

Don’t have a number to back me up, but I’ve never seen anybody make some many great throws from the outfield. That’s got to count for something.

They could still trade Uggla, move Coughlan to 2d and let the outfield be Maybin Cody and BC.

These things do work their way out in unpredictable manners, man do I really have to wait almost three more months for opening day.

by jrhana on Jan 23, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You're still an idiot. Go away.

Mods — is it possible to ban this guy? I honestly believe he’s bringing this whole place down, and has been for some time now.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Jan 23, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure about BC's hitting, he looks pretty bad out there

But most defensive metrics and the Fans rated BC very highly last season, so there’s definitely something to his defense. How much it regresses remains to be seen.

Marlin Maniac, a Florida Marlins blog
Come attend Intro to Sabermetrics 101!
Check me out at Beyond the Box Score as well.

by SFiercex4 on Jan 23, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's funny how I see more rabid, venomous attacks on sports threads

than I do anywhere else in the internet.

Partly I guess because we feel passionate.

Anybody doesn’t want to read what I have to say feel free not to read it.

by jrhana on Jan 23, 2010 2:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe you're not an idiot about things other than sports?

I mean, I find that hard to believe, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

And here’s the thing. NOBODY wants to read what you have to say — in part because it’s so massively boneheaded, in part because you present it in such a smug, self-important fashion, in large part because you refuse to engage with the people disagreeing with you or with the statistical evidence, and in part because you’ve said the same few things repeatedly for the duration of your tenure here.

And honestly, “feel free not to read it” is a weak defense. It’s on the damn site, between something some guy says and something some other guy says — it’s an effort not to read it. You’re presenting what you’re saying as part of the conversation. (And then you refuse to converse.)

Honestly, your whole demeanor infuriates and depresses me. I know there have been many times I’ve avoided reading or posting on this site because of the hassle of dealing with you. I’m sure I’m far from alone in this. I don’t know whether you’re deliberately trolling, or whether you’re deluded enough to think anyone cares what you have to say, but the bottom line remains the same: your presence makes this place markedly more unpleasant. Now, ideally, you would realize that and leave of your own volition… but I feel like if that was going to happen, it would’ve happened by now.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Jan 23, 2010 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs