Nick Johnson nowhere in sight

by craig on Aug 20, 2009 9:53 AM EDT in News Comment 18 comments

The Marlins are being careful with Nick Johnson and well they should be. The man is injury prone and rushing him back is only a recipe for disaster.

Getting Nick Johnson back into action is a step-by-step process.

Resting a strained right hamstring, the Marlins first baseman did some light workouts in pregame warmups Wednesday at Minute Maid Park.

Johnson did some throwing, and he fielded ground balls at his first base. He was not scheduled to hit.

Could he take some swings on Thursday?

"We'll see how it goes," Johnson said.

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The Marlins are being cautious not to use Johnson if he isn't completely ready. As it stands now, if he goes on the 15-day disabled list, the move could be made retroactive to Monday.

As it stands right now, the Marlins have 12 position players and 12 pitchers and one Nick Johnson who they don't dare use because it could mean a longer stint on the DL. (You know, he could actually have to serve fifteen days.) Which might happen anyway since the man doesn't have a history of healing very fast, but why force it at this moment. What it comes down to, at least until Monday, is that he is taking up space on the bench and his contributions are only going to be of the moral support variety. Nothing against moral support, but really that doesn't change the shorten of the bench that the Fish have experienced recently. Then again, they have had a lot practice in that area for most of the month. So what is new.

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WHO'S ON FIRST

JOHNSON OUT…BUT CANTU STILL AT THIRD…BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE SAME PEOPLE (fredi)WHO CONTINUE TO ROLL OUT THE GOD AWFUL RENYEL PINTO GAME AFTER GAME

by WHOLETRUTHY on Aug 20, 2009 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with this.

that is all.

by jrsyeagle on Aug 20, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Caps lock issues aside...

Who’d you rather see? Fredi apparently has decided that Helms/Gload are about the same and have chosen perhaps to platoon them. Not a bad call, given what we know. Gload, who faces righties in such a platoon, can only play first/right field (I don’t even know about that, but probably about as well as Hermida can). Cantu has to be at third if Gload plays. Helms can play both corner infield spots, so if Helms is in the lineup, Cantu shifts to first. I’m fairly certain both options are better than playing Bonifacio, especially since the team is planning on using him as its fourth outfielder.

So what’s your proposition? If you want Cantu at first, who plays third?

Marlin Maniac, a Florida Marlins blog

by SFiercex4 on Aug 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd much rather Gload in the lineup than Helms.

Helms is an excellent pinch-hitter, but he has nowhere near the offensive capability you’d want in a regular corner infielder. Gload’s no all-star, either, but he hits better than Helms.

I wonder if the team’s given any thought to trying Gaby at third for a few games. Assuming they remember Gaby’s on the team.

by Fishcrazy on Aug 20, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had attempted to post this exact thing but I see it didn't go through

It’s not like Cantu at third cost us the game (has it even cost us any game yet?), and despite his pinch-hitting prowess, Wes Helms is not a starter. At least Gload is left-handed.

by Bumppo on Aug 20, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cantu arguably cost us at least one game.

August 1, Fish lose to the Cubs, 9-8. (That was the game where Boni hit the bottom-of-the-ninth game-tying triple.)

From the recap:

The Marlins entered the ninth inning down, 6-5, but the Cubs picked up two runs when Ryan Theriot doubled to drive home Milton Bradley and Jeff Baker. Theriot had the opportunity to come to the plate after third baseman Jorge Cantu committed a throwing error with one out. The throwing error was Cantu’s second of the game and he was not pleased with how he performed in his first game at third base since 2008.

It’s hard to say that Cantu’s error “caused” the loss, but he did help increase the Cubs’ lead in the ninth.

Really though, I’m not sure the question is whether he’s cost us any games, but if his defense helps us win any. He’s got to be the worst defensive third baseman in our division, if not the league, it not all of MLB: 4 E’s in only 14 games since he moved back oveer (.879 fielding percentage), the lowest zone rating in baseball last year, and not one season with a plus UZR.

That’s not to dump on Cantu too much, or to suggest he shouldn’t be on the field. I’d rather his lousy D than Helms’ or Boni’s lousy O.

by Fishcrazy on Aug 20, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well we still had a chance to win that Cubs game

But the way I think about it, those defensive stats don’t matter on a game-to-game basis, but rather over the entire season. Certainly we would be a better team with a Gold Glove-caliber third baseman playing every game, but would it really matter much replacing Cantu with Brooks Robinson tonight against the Astros? Probably not. On a game-to-game basis, I only consider his defense a negative attribute if he literally fails to make a play and that costs us the game.

by Bumppo on Aug 20, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if a Cantu error doesn't identifiably "lose" a game, that's a really low standard.

It’s not just the E’s that affect a team. Has he failed to snag a line drive other 3Bs would’ve? Has he failed to nip runners at first, or properly started a double-play? Has his bad D required a pitcher to throw more pitches, thus wearing himself out earlier?

And even sticking with just empirical data, UZR measures runs a player’s D costs or saves. So if Cantu costs the team more than 7 runs last year, how is that not a negative attribute? Because 7 runs didn’t equal 7 losses?

(Again, I’m not saying he shouldn’t be at 3B if 1B is taken, I’m just pointing out that his D at third is very bad.)

by Fishcrazy on Aug 20, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just hate pinto

I’m OK with Cantu at 3b… only OK, but that’s an improvement that Pinto on the mound. Pinto’s era is like Jacobs & Hermida’s HRs last year… only low because he pitches well when it doesn’t matter.

Cantu made up for his error, in some regard, 2 plays later diving for the line drive. Everyone makes mistakes, it just sucks when they cost us the lead, and eventually we lose that game.

All that said, with how steadily the team is at least hitting (16 runners left on aside), I’d take a sure glove in the field over a sure bat (Cantu at 1b, helms at 3b)

by jrsyeagle on Aug 20, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not at all saying it's not a negative attribute

But say he costs us seven runs. That’s seven runs for the season, not for the game. At the worst, that could cost us seven games a year, or about one game out of every 23. Starting Cantu at third on a particular night is going to cost us 1/23 of a run. Not exactly great shakes.

Of course it’s a negative for him to play at third all season, but it’s certainly going to kill us in a particular game. Perhaps instead of using errors as the gold standard, I should have said “poor defensive play in general.” But I stand by my revised statement: unless his “poor defensive play” in some way costs us the game, I see no problem with him at third on a game by game basis. For the entire season, of course I want to improve.

by Bumppo on Aug 20, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs