Jayson Stark on Marlins trade talk
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 10:55 AM EDT
48 comments
Just a quick fanpost on a segment I heard this morning on 790 the Ticket, featuring Jayson Stark. I listened for about 15-20 minutes, and wish I could've listened longer but I had to go to work. Here are some bullet-points on what he said about possible Marlins dealings. As you probably alreayd know, the non-waiver trade deadline is tomorrow.
- The Marlins aren't very active in the trade market. Stark hasn't heard much about possible Marlins deals.
- The Marlins are looking for an extra outfield bat, someone like a Jonny Gomes (that was an example; I don't think he meant that we were actually asking about Gomes). But there's very few available low-salaried, extra outfielders who are on non-contenders and could be acquired relatively cheaply.
- There apparently was some Hermida-to-the-Cubs chatter a while ago, but it's died. The team apparently does not have plans to move Hermida. (I'm not sure if that's because they value him, or because no one will surrender anything worthwhile for him.)
- The Marlins asked about the Padres' Heath Bell. Any Bell deal would require Andrew Miller or Sean West, and the Marlins don't want to do that, at least at this point. Stark thinks Bell for West might be a good deal. He also touted Miller's potential and said that you don't want to give up on him yet. But Miller also needs to master more than one pitch, which may be impossible with his delivery; Miller still throws across his body and Stark thinks he needs a new delivery.
- A caller asked about acquiring Victor Martinez from the Indians. Stark said it was highly unlikely, and that it would probably require someone like Cameron Maybin. He said to use the Cliff Lee deal as a comparison: the Indians are looking for multiple quality prospects.
- The team will not trade Mike Stanton, and Logan Morrison's probably not far from untradeable, as well.
- And the most interesting tidbit...the Marlins actually inquired about Roy Halladay. They were told it would take a package including Stanton and Maybin and that was the end of that.
With the trade deadline looming, all the well-connected baseball pundits like Stark, Kurkjian, Olney and Gammons are making the TV and radio rounds. If you've heard anything else about the Marlins, please post it here!
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On, one other thing...
Stark said the Marlins asked about George Sherill, but that the price was too high. He didn’t go into detail.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and some more, from the Herald:
Link:
One general manager of a noncontender said the Marlins called to express interest in possibly adding a hitter, and a second GM said a logical available option would be Nationals/ex-Marlins outfielder Josh Willingham (.298, 16 homers, including two grand slams Monday). Another executive mentioned Kansas City third baseman/right fielder Mark Teahen (.294, nine HR, 36 RBI). The Marlins also will consider acquiring a starting pitcher — even more so if Andrew Miller has another bad start Wednesday at Triple A.
Oh, please let us re-acquire Hammer!! He’d be perfect. Plus, my Willingham T-shirt wouldn’t be outdated anymore.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Willingham would be an excllent pick up
whoare we offering?
Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23
by Patssuck456 on Jul 30, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It didn't say.
Maybe they’d take Hermida. or Boner (one can only dream). According to Federal Baseball, an SB Nation sister-site, the Nats’ GM says Hammer is part of the team’s future. But they always say that, so big deal.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no way Hammer is a part of their "future"
Hammer is 30 and has a lot of health related questions. In addition, he’s not a very good outfielder. There’s no way he’s a part of anyone’s “future” so much as he is a good part of their present. By the time the Nats are competitive, Willingham won’t have a spot to play or he might be far less productive.
That being said, I’d be interested in getting Hammer back, but we’re already fairly crowded in the outfield. The option of moving Coghlan back into the infield and rotating between Hermida, Ross, Willingham, and Carroll sounds good though. One of those guys would be available again for trading by the end of the season to make room for Maybin. Maybe this time we could actually get something real for one of them, instead of Bonifacio.
by SFiercex4 on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And supposedly Washington has several outfield prospects waiting for a shot.
“Part of our future” is just posturing for bargaining purposes.
As for a crowded outfield, I can easily see a shifting platoon of Coghlan/Willingham in left and Hermida/Willingham in right. Or better yet, no Hermida and only Willingham in right. Hermida may be the one player whose defense isn’t appreciably better than Hammer’s. I don’t see the Marlins moving Coghlan back to the infield at this point in the season, but who knows.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Fish have had five outfielders on the roster at times
So it wouldn’t be unheard of. Alejandro de Aza was up for about two or three weeks back in June, alongside the current bunch.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
by ocelotfox on Jul 30, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heath Bell deal close?
from SI.com’s John Heyman:
The Marlins are in serious discussions to try to land Padres closer Heath Bell.
The Padres have been seeking one of two pitching prospects, either Andrew Miller or Sean West.
Florida has won seven of eight games and currently sit two games back in the wild card and six games back in the NL East.
The Yankees also are showing interest in Bell. But right now the Marlins are in good position to make a deal.
Is it worth it for Miller or West? By the way, I’d cite ESPN’s writers, but they put everything behind that idiotic paywall.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would give up one of those two
I would prefer to keep West and give up Miller. Bell is a very good reliever, even before this year when he was setting up Hoffman.
by cpmustangs13 on Jul 30, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bell is 31
Which could influence a front office that seemingly can’t stand anyone over 30, but I’d say it would be worth it, seeing as he’s the reason that the Padres felt so comfortable allowing the greatest closer of all-time to walk away.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
by ocelotfox on Jul 30, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Sports Illustrated
The marlins are close to a deal for Bell. Will be either Miller or West going to the Padres. I’m okay with Miller going. I know it’s soon to give up on him, but he is a big project still at this point for someone that was supposed to be ready last year. If Bell, Hopper, and Maybin (assuming he works out) is our net for Cabrera… I’m still not happy about his departure, but I’ll take it.
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Goldstein on Miller this morning
Seen by many as the best pitcher in the 2006 draft, a year that included Tim Lincecum, Clayton Kershaw, and Joba Chamberlain, to say Miller hasn’t lived up to expectations is more than a bit kind. Sent back to the minors after failing to get out of the third inning in back-to-back starts, Miller allowed six runs in 4 2/3 innings while walking nine five days ago, and retired just three of nine batters he faced on Wednesday before rolling his ankle while fielding a bunt. He’s in the deep, deep grass at the point.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 30, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Olney just updated
marlins turned down the trade… wouldn’t part with miller or west
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offer San Diego a package deal of Graham Taylor and John Koronka.
They’d never turn that down!
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Rosenthal blurb on Yankees getting in on Heath Bell
The Padres, however, are asking a high price — “as much as the Blue Jays are for Halladay,” one source says — and might simply choose to trade Bell in the offseason instead.
hahahahahahahaha
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's highly exaggerated.
Miller or West is hardly a Halladay-level asking price.
I wonder what the O’s wanted for Sherill.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or if it is
I would trade Miller and West for Halladay in a hearbeat.
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
An NONSENSICAL update
this makes no sense… a beat reporter in SD is saying the marlins are more open to trading Hurk than miller or west… so… umm… we’re going to go the rest of the season with 3 decent starters so we can add a 3rd closer?
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can understand them being "more open" to Hurk
The FO has been pretty consistent on valuing ceiling/potential over riskiness. Obviously it doesn’t make much sense in this specific discussion, as you’ve noted, but in a general sense I guess.
PS: The more I think about the supposed top story in baseball today (and I say “supposed” because if you’re genuinely surprised Ortiz was using, well, I don’t know what to say to you), the more I wonder if the FO is going to try to capitalize on it. It would seem to me that the media crush about to come down on Papi, in addition to his already iffy production, is going to make Boston all the more serious about getting Adrian Gonzalez. Kevin Towers isn’t an idiot, and what was already likely a huge asking price is only going to be hardened by such a reaction, to the extent that Boston may need to bring in another team to offset some costs. Enter their favorite trading partner, and I wonder if it’s so far-fetched to imagine a super blockbuster package (including Miller/West/whomever) going to San Diego, with Bell and a Boston prospect coming to Florida, and Gonzalez landing with the Sox.
And yes, I am the same person who just days ago said it’s stupid to armchair multi-team trades. BUT IT’S SO FUN.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 30, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Dan, for shame...
Sounds exciting though.
by SFiercex4 on Jul 30, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
790 the Ticket Reporting
Adrian Gonzalez and Heath Bell for Miller, Stanton, and Maybin
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I just caught the end of that
Did SD offer? cuz I just don’t see our FO doing it
by HadMatter on Jul 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...please tell me that's a hoax
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't catch it, got it via a coworker who was listening
SD apparently offered it, or maybe they were just speculating.
The FO has said stanton is untouchable so I see no way of it happening, besides that it’s a ridiculous haul. No website is reporting it though…
by jrsyeagle on Jul 30, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, there are no reports on this, so it didn't happen.
probably just someone randomly suggesting trades.
My jaw dropped for a second there.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Samson
just said offer not on the table and that “other teams just don’t want to deal with us anymore”
Huh…
by HadMatter on Jul 30, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that could be a bit of an issue.
unless they intend to trade only with Japanese teams.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peter Gammons says the Reds are willing to move Arthur Rhodes.
jrhana can begin hyperventilating now.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 30, 2009 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tidbits from Juan C. Rodriguez:
<a href=“http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/2009/07/florida-marlins-fishing-for-nick-johnson-bell-too-pricey-pavano-redux.html”Link:
The Washington Nationals’ first baseman, Johnson is the Marlins’ biggest target as the clock winds down, a source that has spoken with the club confirmed this morning. The Marlins hope to land Johnson and his gaudy .408 on-base percentage, and plug him in the two spot in front of Hanley Ramirez
…
With Cantu at third, what happens to Bonifacio? He would take on more of an Alfredo Amezaga role, getting spot starts around the infield in addition to left..
The [Marlins] were in on closer George Sherrill before the Orioles dealt him to the Dodgers. They’d love to add Heath Bell, but the Padres asked for Cameron Maybin AND Andrew Miller. Unless the price comes down the Marlins are out.
Kansas City rejected the Marlins’ overtures about Brian Bannister, leaving former Marlin Carl Pavano as possibly their best alternative.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 31, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I kinda like Nick Johnson
as long as he’s not too expensive. I like Bell too, but that’s an unbelievable price to ask for him. I’m not all that convinced that we need another starting pitcher, especially considering the depth on the farm.
by cpmustangs13 on Jul 31, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get Banny!
If only so he can teach the other guys to take a look at Pitch f/x. But alas, that probably wouldn’t happen anyway.
Everyone, stay put!
by SFiercex4 on Jul 31, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
More Jayson Stark, from mlbtraderumors.com:
the Red Sox still “have pokers in the fire” on Gonzalez, Martinez, and Roy Halladay. Stark continues to suggest the Sox may try to include a third team to facilitate one of these deals.
Link.
Dan is prescient, as always.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 31, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OBP! OBP!
ESPN’s Peter Gammons reports that the Marlins appear to be moving closer to a deal for Nationals first baseman Nick Johnson. Washington hasn’t made a trade since its June 30 trade for Nyjer Morgan and has told teams it’s content to take draft picks for its impending free agents.
But Johnson probably wouldn’t qualify for free-agent compensation because he has missed so much time with injuries. So the Nats appear more motivated to trade Johnson than some of their other available players this week.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 31, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Would be the first time the Marlins cared about that department
It’s a shame Johnson costs 4 runs in the field, plus a good three runs in the field for the Marlins switching Cantu back to third. Of course, replacing Bonifacio is like +15-20 on offense, so…let’s see who we give up.
by SFiercex4 on Jul 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At very worst
This trade insures that Bonifacio loses his starting spot, which may eventually lead to the FO realization that he sucked.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
by ocelotfox on Jul 31, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the thing with Cantu though
is that it’s basically a wash whether he plays first or third. His defensive gains at first are roughly equal to the positional adjustment (which is exactly what we’d expect, obviously).
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 31, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right on that
But since the positional adjustments don’t change for the team, it still turns into a negative overall for the team. While the valuation of the player may not change because of the positional adj switch, we’d still go from a +0 1B → -3-4 1B (rest of the year) and go from a -3 3B → -4 3B (that’s probably not right, but it’s just used to illustrate the point). As a team we still lose 4 runs
Not that it would matter, as Johnson’s ZiPS projected bat the rest of the year is 17 runs better than Bonifacio’s ZiPS projected bat.
Still, is that worth giving up the prospect? Probably not.
by SFiercex4 on Jul 31, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be wary of any valuation of Johnson's talent that has him below average
Obviously with his age and injuries, and the fact that there’s not much to 1B besides range, he’s not the fielder he used to be, but he’s also around the age that these things tend to level off for first basemen. Considering he’s always been above-average, I’d have a hard time thinking he’s going to be -4 runs in two months. Of course, given that it’s just two months, it’s hard to expect anything other than random chance winning out.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 31, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you that
Especially with UZR’s large error bars. Still, the difference is between 1-2 wins, would that be worth trading prospects for? I haven’t done any of the math, so I wouldn’t know, but my guess is no. Given Tucker’s ranking as a B pitcher, I think he yields $7.2M average. If Johnson’s contract is somewhat paid for, do we get 2 wins out of him?
I’d do some regression regarding his defense, but you’re right, it’s chance if anything. He’d have to be average for us to get the value we want.
by SFiercex4 on Jul 31, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more pertinent is whether 2 wins is enough
Strictly speaking, we’re three out of the wild card; then you add in that performance-wise we’re the only team dramatically over-performing our pythagorean record; then you add in that the Cardinals would be expected to play better going forward with the Holliday addition; then you add in the Giants addition of Sanchez; then you note the added difficulty of having to not just make up the three games on San Fran but also the games on the teams in between us and the top spot…
…and we come back to the point of whether it would matter if Nick Johnson gave us his best two-month stretch ever. Why give up anything at all for a rental player when the likelihood is that you simply miss the playoffs by a little smaller margin?
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 31, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?? Aaron Thompson for Nick Johnson
Fox’s Ken Rosenthal reports that the Marlins have gotten their man, Nick Johnson.
But sadly, they apparently gave up AA lefty Aaron Thompson, our second-best starting prospect behind Sean West.
So let me get this straight. We have no starting pitching depth, yet we gave up one of our only promising minor-league starters for a two-month rental of Nick Johnson?!? Johnson for Ryan Tucker would be a great trade for us. But Thompson? I don’t get it. Seems desperate to me.
by Fishcrazy on Jul 31, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the FO is actually planning on keeping Nick Johnson past this season
At least this means there’s a good chance we’ve seen the end of the Bonifacio-at-third era.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
by ocelotfox on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thompson has fallen off the planet, prospect-wise
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
by dan 2.0 on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have mixed feelings
If it gives a boost and propels us into the playoffs, then I’m willing to eat the loss. If Johnson has a good two months, he could move into the Type B range even.
However if we wasted a player, then that would obviously suck.
Still, lose Thompson to get rid of Bonerface? I like it now.
by Bumppo on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have the order reversed
Most of the “experts” have Tucker ahead of Thompson by a decent margin. Sickels I believe has THompson as a C and Tucker as a B/B+
by SFiercex4 on Jul 31, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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