Have we had enough of Uggla?
by Excited Dave on Jul 27, 2009 11:07 AM EDT
16 comments
This will be short and sweet, and I don't want to cause a stink with my opinion. However, I am really interested in everyone else's opinions. Please comment on Dan Uggla and whether his presence helps the team. Is the occasional homerun enough? Defense has been solid, but is he even an avg hitter, can he hit off a pitcher with"stuff"? I have my opinions, and based on these questions, you probably know what my answers are. My answer to the headline is yes. I've had enough. I like the guy, but my gosh, can there be anybody more "un-clutch"?
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As primary Dan Uggla on this here site...
I won’t go into the details, because I’ve already done so quite a few times. I’ll phrase my question as such: by wOBA, he’s the fifth best hitter on the team this year. That means there’s three guys who are worse hitters than Uggla, and despite Uggla’s horrific defense this year (at least by UZR), those three players are all worth less in terms of WAR as well.
Right now Uggla’s on pace for an average season, around 2 wins. Is that good? Not for the arbitration money we’re paying him. But could we find something better? Probably not. We probably wouldn’t get fair value for him in a trade because so many talent evaluators value batting average for some reason, and that would deflate his actual offensive value.
I won’t say he’s not struggling, and there are things he isn’t doing right this year that he probably was doing the year before, particularly hitting more line drives and getting under the ball less. But before we complain about his production, maybe you should point out the other three guys below him in production first, particularly Hermida.
Dan Uggla is not the problem with this team.
Not even close. He’s not even a problem.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
You could do worse than Uggla.
I think his struggles so far are largely a function of bad luck; he’s got a .253 BABIP. That doesn’t happen in the real world. He’ll get better.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
it does if he's become a flyball hitter.
Mike Jacobs’ BABIP last year was .256. Jacobs could never draw a walk like Uggla, so Uggla’s still worlds better than him, but there are unpleasant similarities between Uggla ’09 and Jacobs ’08.
It seems Uggla’s getting under a ton of hittable pitches, but I’ll leave it to the more knowledgeable folks here to better diagnose his swing problems.
Even with that in mind, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to trade him unless they’re getting a quality 3B, closer or starter—which isn’t likely because his value has to be lower now than ever. And there’s not really anyone waiting to take over and break out in his place. Coghlan may be the 2B of the near-future, but he hasn’t shown enough yet to where you’d trade a guy to make room for him. (Forget Freddie Sanchez; if the Pirates won’t be pay him, they won’t pay Uggla, either.)
Barring something madly creative by the front office, we’ll probably just have to bear with Uggla’s struggles. Not every bad season can be remedied by a great trade.
I would not accept a trade for Uggla
Unless it really was an upgrade at 2B. I wouldn’t accept it to clear room for Boni or Coghlan. I think the only 2B “on the market” right now that I would consider working a trade around is Freddy Sanchez… but I like Dan and am fine with how he has played thus far this season, though he’s left a lot to be desired…
This
“fine with how he has played thus far this season, though he’s left a lot to be desired…”
and this
“Dan Uggla is not the problem with this team.”
Uggla
I think our team vastly improves without him. I know the stats say it’s mostly bad luck but his lack of clutch is ridiculous. His swing looks atrocious. It’s just not pretty. He used to hit doubles routinely. He can’t hit any pitcher with stuff. It’s a joke to them. Getting him to hit into a double play is child’s play. I’m ready for coghlin to be the starter. Too bad Uggla can’t get anything in a trade.
Is Coghlan any more clutch?
Sorry, but the day I count on a rookie who has been a spotty hitter at best to replace a year-removed All-Star selection is the day I am a crazy person.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
Let's see...
Extremely subpar defense and anemic offense equals a great player, right?
Not really. Get rid of him, Hermida, and Cody Ross. We could do so much better.
But since we would have to be so incredibly creative to make a trade, and because that it just so hard to do, we should just give up and stand pat. Grow a pair. When someone hits almost .200 you get rid of him. It’s simple. Someone out there still thinks he can be good, since Dan, Fishcrazy, and Fierce think we should stick with him so much. They all agree so much I am starting to think they are the same loser nerd trying to get his points across, but he needs multiple accounts to make himself feel better about himself because nobody else ever agrees with that bullshit. Say he is unlucky. Be in denial. Say he is going to come around. Fact is, he flat out sucks. He is not producing enough to be a just about any team. And if he is still the 6th best hitter on this team that just shows hwo much our Front Offices commitment to winning is.
Album coming soon
by Han The Man And The Band on Jul 27, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions
giggles
PS: “When someone hits almost .200 you get rid of him. It’s simple.”
Before you run off to be a Rays fan like you said in that other thread, you might want to prepare to make that argument about Carlos Pena and his current sub-Uggla batting average. I’d love to see you accuse the entire fanbase of being the same person for disagreeing with you on that one.
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
This isn't the AL
Almost every NL club has a slugger with a low batting average. He’s having his worst career season, so accept it, and hope the club realizes the true problem with the team is its obsession with youth and potential.
The Player's Commenter
Big Fan of Tyler Thigpen, the boy from Coastal Carolina
'Phins are gonna go 10-6 this year, but better would be nice!
Member of the "I Hate Emilio Bonerface Club"
You can try to compare Uggla and Pena...
It is comical though. I would love for Dan to produce like Pena. Pena’s production is far better than Dan’s. He has a greater OPS than Dan with bases empty, one man on, RISP, RISP with two outs, bases loaded. You name it, he does it. Dan doesn’t. So just because everybody else has a low average, power-hitter doesn’t mean everyone should do that. Yeah, Mark Reynolds is ok, but look at the Dbacks record. There are certain teams that need to play more small-ball and get people on base. Some don’t and there records show it.
Album coming soon
by Han The Man And The Band on Jul 28, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
"When someone hits almost .200 you get rid of him. It’s simple."
Marlins Stadium: When It's Raining, The Roof Will Happen!
Mark Reynolds is pretty good
In fact, many low-average, high power hitters tend to be pretty damn good offensive players. Witness Pena, Reynolds, Cust (prior to this season), Dunn, etc. The skillset of high-patience, high-strikeout, high-power tends to produce good offensive players. Their defensive production often times leaves something to be desired, but that’s another story.
And you seem to be equating batting average to on-base percentage. They’re not the same. And OBP is important for everyone, not just some teams. Yet you seem to want to get rid of a guy who owns the fourth-best OBP on the team, the same guy who posted the second-best OBP on the team last year, and the team’s leader in walks.
Don't know about you guys...
… but I’d much rather have Uggla in the line up than Jay Bruce.
Go Nevada Wolf Pack!
Bruce is a top-flight defensive player
He may not be the power hitter Uggla is yet (I haven’t really checked his numbers, just know that he’s in Uggla’s predicament as well), but his +10 or so runs in the field help. Uggla’s -8 or so don’t.
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