Chum Bucket
by craig on Feb 13, 2009 11:24 AM EST
in News and Rumors
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PrintIt's Friday! And I am watching the proceedings of the meeting with the city commissioners and I have come to one unmistakable conclusion: I need more RAM.
Given my wrestlings with trying to see and hear everything, this all I have at the moment.
Have a Great Day!
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An example of a Miami "deadline" - today now March 12
With the Florida Marlins stadium deal in danger of being killed — with just four commissioners present — Miami Commissioners late Friday postponed a final vote until March 12. That will allow all 5 commissioners to be present — and may save the deal.
http://www.miamiherald.com/591/story/902452.html
My two cents…. political grandstanding and they are just playing chicken to see who will blink. But we very well may be seeing the San Antonio or Nashville Marlins or whatever soon enough… we’ll see who blinks.
Love the Marlins, hate the idea of new stadium...
There is no better situation for a baseball fan than the current stadium the Marlins play in. Centrally located. Next to turnpike, Ives Dairy Road, University Drive, 826. Parking is a breeze. Tickets are cheap and plentiful. Did I mention the sit where you like policy? How about 2 world series championships in the past 11 years?
The new stadium will be very expensive and paid for by the overburdened taxpayer who at the moment is hurting badly. Traffic will be a nightmare if you live in Broward or Palm Beach, even south Miami. Parking on four floors? Has anyone here ever been to the Mall the day after Thanksgiving? If you go to the game, plan on listening to the end on the radio while driving home or staying in the parking lot for a LONG time.
And has anyone here noticed the city of Miami has a small problem with CORRUPTION? Count on this stadium to go way over budget, with much of the money going into corrupt political partisans hands.
The move is to stay at the stadium formerly known as “Joe Robby”. Make a deal with the Dolphins or Huizenga or whomever and let the team stay put.
Please do not post if you are not informed...
“Joe Robbie”. Dolphins currently owned by Stephen Ross. Clearly you have never been to a real baseball stadium. It is unlike any other sporting experience. (Futbol is cool too). The folks from Broward and Palm Beach are not helping the situation at all right now. How many of them, who are closer to the stadium currently than anyone in Miami, attend games regularly? The tax contributions are not coming from the taxpayer at all, they are coming from Hotel Bed Taxes, paid by tourists.
The Marlins need this stadium, and Miami does as well if it wants to be respected as a world class city.
And the stadium will be approved and open for business 2012.
I Love Baseball
Did I mention the sit where you like policy?
…………….
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
Sticks and stones...
Personal attacks on an anonymous blog are pointless. Robby, Robbie, Huizenga, Ross…who cares? Let’s get real. The city, state, federal governments are all going broke…building this unnecessary monument to millionaires and corrupt politicos is an insult to every child in Miami/Dade who is currently attending class in a mobile home. Sports are fun. I love the Marlins. I attended at least 20 home games last year and thoroughly enjoyed myself(when my team won). It is because that I have been to so many other major league parks that I enjoy the experience of attending a game at whatever the stadium is currently called where the Marlins play. Last year alone I went to Yankee Stadium, Dodger Stadium and whatever the stadium is currently called in San Francisco. Yankee Stadium was a ridiculously over priced dump that was purposely run down so NYC would build them a new stadium. Dodger Stadium was nice, but expensive and difficult to get to and leave because of large amounts of traffic. SF’s stadium was expensive but conveniently located near the downtown area and my hotel. However at none of these stadiums did I have a better vantage point of the game, a cheaper ticket and easier access to the stadium.
To your point: “The tax contributions are not coming from the taxpayer at all, they are coming from Hotel Bed Taxes, paid by tourist.” This attitude of that so long as other people are paying the taxes then high taxation is actually ok, is as insulting as it is short sighted. Every time one of these boondoggle stadiums comes to be, the main argument seems to be we’ll get someone else to pay. Well guess what? A lot of jobs in South Florida depend on those tourists coming here…again and again. If the price of a hotel or restaurant or rental car becomes artificially too high because of excessive taxation, people just might start taking their vacations in Naples or Fort Myers or New Mexico or some other place without a brand new white elephant that needs feeding. Have you been to whatever the arena is that the Panthers play at in west Broward? Well I have. It is beautiful and not filled to capacity. New doesn’t mean better. People need to take stock in the good thing they currently have.
"Insulting" to whom, exactly?
You don’t even make sense. Yeah, because once a hotel room goes up a dollar or two, all the tourists will start vacationing in Panama City or something. “Gee, honey, I’d love to get out of the Minnesota snow, but really, do I want to subsidize 1/300,000,000 of a new stadium? Dammit, that ain’t right!! I hear Naples is lovely this time of year, and I do so love being surrounded by retirees.”
Gimme a break. It seems to me that you didn’t realize the taxes were paid by tourists until GMFB pointed it out, so now you’ve changed your argument at the sake of coherence.
Your choices are:
(a.) a convention center
(b.) a stadium
(c.) don’t collect or use the money at all.
If you want to send a big protest message about the Evils of Government or the Burden of the Taxpayer, that’s lovely. But don’t screw over the Marlins doing it, because you’re misguided. The money won’t be spent on schools, infrastructure or anything else other than tourism projects—it can’t be. It’s either a stadium, a convention center, or some other tourism project. Screw a convention center, I want a stadium.
If you don’t want the money being ever used, and you somehow think that’s BETTER, then a stadium, you’re on the wrong message board—I don’t care how many games you’ve been to.
The Marlins simply will not stay in Dolphins Stadium. They make almost no money because of their lease and the football tenants don’t want them there. I fully agree that it’s a great location. But for all the positives you list, attendance is still dreadful. It’s just not working. If moving to the OB site will keep the team here and competitive, then that’s what needs to be done, period. I"m NOT losing my team.
re: "Insulting" to whom, exactly?
Fishcrazy states: “If you don’t want the money being ever used, and you somehow think that’s BETTER, then a stadium, you’re on the wrong message board—I don’t care how many games you’ve been to.”
Actually I am on the right message board, maybe you aren’t. I am a person who has gone to many Marlin games over many years. I find the experience of going to the current stadium to be excellent. The best I have encountered in baseball. The teams have continually over achieved. The various owners have whined the whole time about this or that, but I just want to watch good baseball. If they are having a hard time making money(very questionable with the low salaries paid last year and money being kicked around major league baseball to the smaller market teams like the Marlins) maybe they should invest in their own stadium. Leave the taxpayer out of it…tourist or resident.
When tickets skyrocket in price at a new facility, and enjoyment of the game is impeded by the frustration of traffic to and from the game and a ridiculous parking plan, the average fan will not be able to attend the games, because of excessive cost or excessive time or at least not as many games as he can at the current affordable and democratic stadium.
As for attendance…the reason the Marlins have low attendance is because management sold all of the players both years after the Marlins won the world series. Marlins always had good attendance from their inception through ’97 when if my memory serves, they had the third highest attendance in major league baseball. Blaming the stadium for low attendance is a canard that Marlins management uses to get what they want. A new stadium. They caused this “problem”. If you were smart you should do what I do…take advantage of a young, fun, hardworking, winning team, with cheap/affordable tickets and go to some games.
Re: I love baseball
Madhatter,
I don’t understand your comment. You seem to quote me when you state: “Did I mention the sit where you like policy?” I get the idea that some of you guys have not been to the stadium lately. The games are lightly attended and the ushers there don’t seem too circumspect of fans changing positions in the stadium. At times I have wondered if anyone was in their correct seat, but it does get pretty liberal there as far as seating.
and that's because NO ONE IS THERE.
You’re actually arguing in favor of terrible attendance? Why heck, the worse the attendance, the better it is for fishtail because he can move up a few rows! Man, it must’ve sucked for you during the team’s playoff runs. You have all those annoying fans preventing you from scoring better seats.
re: and that's because NO ONE IS THERE.
I am arguing against a new stadium. I don’t care personally if the stadium is filled or not. Not only didn’t it “suck” when the Marlins won in ’97 and ’03, but it was great in part because we had the biggest stadium in major league baseball with the most fans. And you know what? Everyone parked easily and left in good speed, just like they do at the Dolphin games. The stadium is perfect for a world series game. Especially if YOU want to attend the game…because there are tickets available. I had the pleasure of attending multiple games in both Marlin world series events. Try getting a ticket to a world series game when there are only 30,000 or so seats. No chance. Ooops, I misspoke. There is no chance for the average fan. If you are a person with business or political connections there will be plenty of seating. In the ’86 Mets run up to the world series I attended many games. The crowd had a great vibe all season. Real fans. Because of a friend I got tickets to game 2, Gooden vs. Clemons. The crowd was dead. All suits. All corporate types. The people here on this blog love the Marlins. I just think you guys are not seeing clearly on this one.
This afternoon I went to Hollywood beach. It was a beautiful day. The beach was packed. Cars were lined up outside of municipal parking Garages waiting to park. Others were waiting to get out. Horns were blaring. Total kaos. Can anyone imagine the disaster this 4 story parking garage is going to be before and after every game? How about a 7:05 start next to a 836 that is already full of delays in traffic at that time?
And if this stadium is not built, exactly where are the Marlins going to go? Montreal? Eastern Virginia? Las Vegas? Not likely. I think they have few choices other than to work things out with the current Stadium management. This recession has hit the entire country very hard. If the Marlins want a stadium they should do what Joe Robbie did…and build it themselves.
paragraph breaks are your friend.
I really didn’t read whatever it is you’re blathering on about in your two replies to me, but I did catch that you’re also apoplectic about the parking.
Considering that you root for the Marlins to have terrible attendance so you can get better seats, it makes perfect sense that you’d also root against the stadium because you’re terrified about parking.
Frankly, I think you’re full of shit and just enjoy getting a rise out of the real fans here. I’m quite done with you and hopefully everyone else here will be, as well.
re: paragraph breaks are your friend.
Fishcrazy, I am not surprised by your vulgar response, nor that you wouldn’t read my comments fully, which is, I guess, why you mis-characterize my opinion. However your comment is telling…“Considering that you root for the Marlins to have terrible attendance so you can get better seats, it makes perfect sense that you’d also root against the stadium because you’re terrified about parking.”
When contemplating building a stadium one of things you might want to consider is parking. Another is traffic. Another is a central location. Another is the expense and where the money is going to come from…and if that same money could be spent elsewhere more wisely. Another thing is to contemplate the current situation and ask the fans who actually attend the games (like me) how they feel about a move. At every point here I believe the Marlins are better off staying where they are. Honest people can disagree without resorting to vulgarity. I am surprised that this blog is not better monitored since this game has always appealed to young people.
Sorry about that
I was out in my boat drinking beer in the sun all day, most of what you said made no sence, and well, don’t drink and type.
I make it to a dozen or so games a year and you are mostly right about the seating. But I was there one Sunday day game in July and the usher was kicking everyone out of the only three isles of shade along the 3rd base line. Even couples with infants! It was brutally hot.
As for the funding, I think you are wrong. This is from a reply to my email from Rebeca Sosa of District 6. “The proposed funding from Miami Dade County is composed of Sports Tax that can only be used by Florida Statues for stadiums or sports facilities…the law earmarks those fundings for specific use.”
I would be happy to forward it to you.
So these taxes are already in place and the Marlins will cover any cost overruns.
While I may miss watching baseball with my feet up and no one in the seats next to me I really hope that this deal gets done.
People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring. ~ Rogers Hornsby
I got that response too...
And I was kind of surprised, but very encouraged. We’re getting the stadium March 12th. YAY!!
3 of 5
One thing I have not seen anywhere is the story with that pregnant lady. Will she have had the kid so she can be at the next meeting, or will she go on leave or something so someone can do the job. Also, what is her position on the whole stadium thing?
P.S. It’s not written in stone that hotel taxes must be spent on touristy things, they could change that law if they wanted to spend it on infrastructure and whatnot.
re: Sorry about that
Thanks for offering to forward the information. I am sure there is a galaxy of stuff I don’t know about this stadium. Unfortunately, I think there is a lot that none of us know about this stadium. I don’t think there is a city in America who would build a stadium at this time of economic hardship…except for a corrupt Miami government. I hope for the sake of the taxpayers and fans, especially the ones who currently attend the games, like myself, the Marlins stay at their current location.
one last thing
You keep mentioning the fact that you want The fish to stay where they are. The problem is that dolphins stadium management will not likely allow that. There is not telling what Stephen Ross will do but the sentiment for years has been that the Dolphins want the Marlins out of there. We can probably get one more year so we can wait for the new stadium, but after that we’re probably looking for a new city. I’d love for the fish to play at Mark Light in Coral Gables. Now that would be fun and novel. At least for a couple months.
re: one last thing
What you say is true, it just doesn’t make any sense. Yes the Dolphins appear to/have stated that they wish the Marlins to leave after a certain time. But why? Don’t they like the revenue 80 plus games brings in? Would they prefer the field empty? Is having the infield dirt for a few home games early in the Dolphin season so terrible?
Ordinarily I don’t go for conspiracy theories, but is it possible that the team owners Dolphins and Marlins are colluding in order get the maximum from the taxpayer?
The state of Kansas is suspending income tax refunds and may not be able to make payroll for government employees in the near future. California is on the verge of bankruptcy with a $40 billion dollar deficit. Can Florida and Miami/Dade be doing so much better that they can swing a $500- $700 million dollar stadium at this time? I would appose the stadium at anytime for the reasons I have stated above, but building one right now smacks of fiddling while Rome is burning.
I dont know
I just know this is the way it is.
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