The Fredi Gonzalez Debacle
I saw this about one minute after it was posted on Sunday, there are two reasons why I didn't blog about it. One being: that is the last thing I wanted to post before the final game of a very exciting season for the Marlins. The other being I was about to collapse from a lack of sleep. Be that has it may, here is the original.
At a time when Bobby Valentine has begun the process of talking with teams about a possible return as a manager in Major League Baseball, sources said he is in communication with the Florida Marlins about a possible position with that team -- less than eight months after Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez received a two-year extension.
Then David Samson pathetically didn't squash the reports.
"After every season we always evaluate everything," said President David Samson, adding he is not aware of any discussions with Valentine. "We’re all disappointed. Certainly winning 87 or 88 games is positive for the organization, but our goal every year is to make the playoffs..."---
Samson confirmed owner Jeffrey Loria feels like this team should have made the playoffs."We try to evaluate the team each year, once during the offseason, again during spring training and you continue the evaluation through the course of the year," Samson said. "As we looked at the performance at things that happened, games that went one way, games that went another way, there is no question we felt we should have been a playoff team."
Now the rant starts.
Fredi, as the manager of the Marlins, has recorded the third and fourth best records in franchise history in just three years. In his first year, he inherited a pitching staff that spent more time in Alabama playing for Dr. Andrews' team, then they ever spent in Florida.
I don't care what you think about Fredi as a manager, personally I like him, sure he is not perfect but arm chair managing is quite easy, try doing the real deal.
But my rant isn't so much about the injustice of this to Fredi, which trust me there has been an injustice to him, it is about the sheer embarrassment of the situation.
Before the Marlins even finished the season after an improvement over last season the higher ups in the front office were considering a change at the managerial position and let it be publicly known. This is beyond belief. The Marlins finished second in the division for only the third time. Which as you know, second is as high as the Marlins have ever finished in the division. And the front office complains about this, incredible. The Marlins ownership has always been considered sleazy in the past and for good reason. But Loria hasn't shown that in Florida until now.
But it gets even better.
"We have not done furloughs, we haven't done mass firings in the front office that other teams have done," Samson said. ``But we're evaluating the possibility of that, too."
There you go, fire Fredi, Beinfest, Hill, Fleming and all of the scouts and that will improve the situation. Oh, and I promise you not one of them will be unemployed for more than a day.
Of course the quotes are coming David Samson whom I consider to be one of the slimiest persons on the face of the planet. In the past I have cut Loria some slack, I didn't like the fire sale of 2005 but I could understand the reason. However, this is thing with Fredi is beyond ridiculous, it is beyond embarrassing, it is disgusting. Even if Fredi is to remain at the helm he will be looking over shoulder the whole time knowing that his job is far from secure. While no manager's job is secure, expecting the team with lowest payroll to make the playoffs year after year is absurd. Sure the young Marlins are talented, that is why they win as many games as they do. But with youth comes injury problems, and stupid mistakes, that is part of the deal. If Loria can't wrap his mind around that, it makes me wonder how he ever got rich dealing art. You would think that abstract thinking would be up his alley. Apparently it is not.
It was a fun season, lots of team and MLB records set and the Marlins hung in there until the last week of the season. Was it perfect? No. But it was a very good ride. And then this crap was released on the last day of the season.
The higher ups in the front office really make it hard to be a Marlins fan.
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The fans
I got slammed for ranting about it when Girardi got fired, but I don’t feel this situation is much different. It really is all about the fans. For a team that is desperately in search of them, these kinds of situations will do nothing but turn them away. Any good will they built up this year is instantly out the window with the casual fans and even a lot of the diehards. Just one more reason not to care about this team as long as Loria and Sampson are here.
And unfortunately unless MLB ousts them
They’re here to stay with the deal with the city. I think the city makes a fortune if ownership switches hands within 10 years.
This would be a catastrophe if they switch coaches. As a Boston College fan, I know how switching our coach 3 times in the last 4 years has split the fan base, and I can’t imagine Florida faring better… but can imagine a lot worse.
I dont think..
its the same at all.. I personally thought Joe was a shitty manager who sent most of our starting rotation to the DL from overuse. Especially that one game when he brought JJ (I think it was JJ) out after an hour and a half rain delay and JJ tears his arm within the first few picthes.. just rediculous.. and yea.. dont even get me started on the others!
It's not about the manager
OK, to start, Fredi has done an excellent job with the team he’s been given, and the apathy with which the team goes about contending for the playoffs. I would not mind seeing him stay as the manger, he certainly deserves it.
That being said, management is not the Marlins strength, and an upgrade there could be an inexpensive (the key term with Florida) way to add a few wins to a season.
FREDI STINKS....GOOD-BYE
i beg all you fredi lovers to name one moment where fredi the robot actually made an unexpected move that made you say “now that’s coaching”
Um, what you're describing is a good quality.
Managers SHOULDN’T be making a bunch of zany moves all the time. That’s desperation.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
No kidding
Fredi wasn’t perfect, but I can think of several managers, like Charlie Manuel for instance, who do more unpredictable and foolish things as manager (recall the Jayson Werth defensive replacement that cost them 3 runs in a single inning.
I’d rather have a guy who makes the generic decisions that keeps a team in the game than one who gambles too often.
Chris Coghlan for NLRoY
Miami Dolphins are headed back to the Playoffs!
Clark Spencer reports today
that according to a team source, Fredi will remain the manager of the Marlins.
Sportcenter just announced live that he was coming back next year
Album coming soon
by Han The Man And The Band on Oct 6, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, espn.com reports as well...
Fredi Gonzalez will return as the Florida Marlins manager in 2010, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney.
Owner Jeffrey Loria met with organization officials Monday in New York to discuss the status of Gonzalez and his coaching staff.
Glad thats over with
The only thing negative I can say about Freddi was starting Bonifacio every freeking day for months. Pathetic.
That's a pretty big "only thing"
Probably cost us two wins on it’s own.
That being said, I’m not a fan of Fredi’s, but as frustrating a decision-maker as he is, it’s hard for a manager to botch more than two games a season as a whole, so as long as he’s not throwing Bonifacio out there, he should stop costing us games.
Marlin Maniac, a Florida Marlins blog
Check me out at Beyond the Box Score as well.
Are we sure that Fredi started Boner on his own?
Always got the feeling that move was Beinfest/front office-driven, and part of the reason Fredi was hired was because he didn’t rock the boat like Girardi. He seems like a solid personality juggler/clubhouse controller, which is probably vital and the single biggest effect a manager could have on club that trends towards young cost controlled/early arbitration folks and castoffs/reclamation projects.
That's pretty much what Oakland did back in the early part of the decade
Chris Coghlan for NLRoY
Miami Dolphins are headed back to the Playoffs!
Offseason predictions.
1- Jeremy Hermida will be non-tendered.
No brainer. He sucks.
2 – Dan Uggla will be traded to the Angels for 2B Howie Kendrick, 3B Brandon Wood, and RHP Jose Arredondo.
We get a replacement for Uggla in HK47 without moving Chris Coghlan (Whose doing a tremendous in left field) and not having to start Emilio Bonerface. We also get a starting 3B with some pop which allows Jorge Cantu to move back to 1B where he’s a better defender. Jose Arredondo is a guy who could replace Kiko Calero (Free Agent. Getting a raise this offseason. Won’t be back.) and maybe even complete for the closer’s job.
3- Ross Gload and Alfredo Amezaga are re-signed.
We have the best bench in the league with Gload, Amezaga, Ronny Paulino, Wes Helms, and Brett Carroll. Emilio Bonerface will start the season in the minors.
5- Andrew Miller will be converted into the Closer.
You have to get some value out of this guy. Moving him to the bullpen may save his career, and I think he would be a dominant Closer. He has great stuff, maybe the best stuff on the team, and his control would get better if he only has to pitch one inning. But you have to get some value out of that Miguel Cabrera trade.
6- The opening day roster will be:
Catchers- John Baker, Ronnie Paulino
Corner Infielders- Cantu, Wood, Helms, Gload
Middle Infielders- Hanley Ramirez, Kendrick, Amezaga
Outfield- Coghlan, Cameron Maybin, Cody Ross, Carroll
Starting Rotation- John Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Anibal Sanchez, Chris Volstad, Sean West
Bullpen- Miller, Leo Nuñez, Matt Lindstrom, Dan Meyer, Arredondo, Brian Sanches, Burke Badenhop/Renyel Pinto
That’s a great team. I expect our starting rotation to get better as Volstad and West will get better with expirience. Our bullpen will have another strong year. We’d have a top 5 offense in the National League. Our Defense would drastically improve with Wood at 3rd, Kendrick at 2nd, and Maybin and Coghlan in the outfield for an entire season.
What do you guys think?
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 8:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well, 2's a terrible idea.
Why would we trade for a guy like Kendrick, who’s a) awful and b) massively injury-prone, and not just keep Uggla? Personally, I wouldn’t take Kendrick for free — he might be my least favorite player in the league — but even objectively speaking, the talent gap between him and Uggla is massive.
Personally, I think either we decide to keep Uggla, or we move Coghlan to 2B. Coghlan is several orders of magnitude more valuable in the infield — his hitting ability is something special for a 2B. For a LF, it’s only slightly above average. Well, unless he keeps up his .370 pace from the second half of last season… but I’m assuming he’ll cool off a bit to something in the low .300s, with maybe… .375 OBP, .450 slugging? I feel like that’s a fair guess. That’s an acceptable line anywhere, but it’s not a great line unless you play a tough defensive position.
Personally, I say we keep Uggla another year — if you look at the numbers, he had no luck on balls in play this year, and there’s no really glaring reason why that should be. But if we don’t do that, we have to use Coghlan for the role he’s best suited to, and that is second base. (We can always find a decent left fielder… anywhere.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Ummm? Maybe cause you're also getting Brandon Wood and Jose Arredondo in the deal.
When you trade Uggla, you’re going to have to get a 2B in return. Like him or not, Kendrick is .300 hitter with some speed and is a good defender. It’s either him or Bonifacio. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Howie Kendrick.
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 3:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Kendrick
First of all, Kendrick NEVER walks. Like, he’s the least patient hitter in baseball. Yes, he has a .300 career batting average — and a .333 career on-base percentage. By comparison, Uggla has a .344 career OBP. He can’t even do the one thing he’s allegedly good at — getting on base.
Moreover, he’s usually injured. He’s never played more than 105 games in a season. So getting a guy like Kendrick means you WILL be seeing his backup almost half the time.
And if all that wasn’t enough, he’s entering his fifth season. So even if he somehow becomes something other than what he is — a lousy, injury-prone player — he’s gone after next season anyway.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Just cause he hasn't played more than 105 doesn't mean he can't.
And about him being a free agent, he won’t be a free agent till 2 years from now. That’s when the stadium will open. They can then make the decision on whether he’s the long-term answer at 2nd or if they should let him walk for draft picks…
I don’t see the problem?
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 4:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's had bad luck with injurys. That doesn't mean he's a bad player.
Injurys are unpredictable.
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 4:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Not, but the fact that he's missed over two-thirds of the season three consecutive years is... suggestive.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Over one-third of the season.
My mistake. Still, I think it’s not at all unreasonable to describe him as chronically injured.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Ummm? Maybe cause you're also getting Brandon Wood and Jose Arredondo in the deal.
When you trade Uggla, you’re going to have to get a 2B in return. Like him or not, Kendrick is .300 hitter with some speed and is a good defender. It’s either him or Bonifacio. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have Howie Kendrick.
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 3:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Um, no.
It’s Howie Kendrick and an out-of position Chris Coghlan, or an in-position Chris Coghlan and whoever they can find to put in left field. I’m telling you right now, they can get a left fielder who’s better than Kendrick for the minimum. Heck, even Brett Carroll is better than Kendrick.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
He's a career .302 hitter. And a good defender.
Coghlan is not going to play 2B. They like him at LF. He’s not a great defensive 2B. Why take him out from a position that he’s adjusted nicely to?
Howie Kendrick will be the 8th batter on the team. A career .302 hitter batting 8th on the team. That’s tells me we have a good offense. You’ll regret everything your saying when you see Bonifacio playing 2nd and Coghlan still in LF….
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I'd regret that.
Mostly because that would be a waste of Coghlan, playing him at a non-defensive position when he can play a defensive position. What you’re describing would never happen, barring an improvement to Bonifacio’s on-base ability — they’d move Coghlan to 2B and play a Brett Carroll/Jeremy Hermida type guy at LF. (Not Hermida himself — I know he’s gone, and yes, good riddance. Good luck to him, but he’s obviously not working out here.)
But like I said, trading for a chronically injured guy like Kendrick MEANS seeing a guy like Bonifacio playing for a large portion of the season.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Also... Brandon Wood?
You mean the guy who batted .195 with a .560 OPS this year? The same guy who, in parts of three seasons, has managed to hit .192 with a .535 OPS? In what bizarre alternate universe is this guy a valid major league player?
I mean, at least Bonifacio and Amezaga are capable of doing SOMETHING. (Not hitting.) And Wood’s somehow a worse hitter than either of those guys.
(He’s also a worse hitter than Josh Johnson. Can JJ play third?)
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Brandon Wood hasn't been in the majors long enough for you to call him a bust.
The Angels have no place to put him. That’s why he’s been up and down the majors. That’s because he’s still very young when he first reached the majors! He’s still considered a very talented player! What do you expect from a guy whose gone up and down because that whole line-up is so good.
Who do you suggest we trade for? Uggla’s getting traded for shore. So what do you think is gonna happen?
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 4:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I expect a guy who hits better than Bonifacio.
He’s 24 years old — and will be 25 by the time next season starts. I feel like a guy who is 24-25 years old, and has repeatedly utterly failed to hit major-league pitching, has a very good chance of NEVER hitting major-league pitching.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
And even if you say he's still a prospect...
…do we want to take on another prospect? I feel like, best-case scenario, he becomes a .700-.800 OPS guy. A barely acceptable offensive 3B. And then how soon is Matt Dominguez coming in anyway? 2012?
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
How much do you honestly think Uggla is worth?
Sure, he’s a good hitter for a 2B. He’s also he’s a bad defender. And nobody is going to give the world for him. Those are 3 good players for one.
by JP 23 on Oct 7, 2009 4:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Uggla is one of the five best hitters at 2B in the league.
And while he’s a below-average defender, he’s not as bad as some people have made out.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

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