Hanley Ramirez may leadoff again

by craig on May 22, 2008 9:30 AM EDT in News Comment 3 comments

The one thing we do know is that Hanley Ramirez will be in tonight's lineup. Where he will bat is up for grabs .

Manager Fredi Gonzalez guaranteed Hanley Ramirez would be in tonight's lineup. He's just not sure where.

Ramirez's struggles since moving to the middle of the order are such that Gonzalez is considering moving him back to leadoff, where he has consistently excelled.

"We'll see how I wake up," said Gonzalez, who left Ramirez out of Wednesday's starting lineup for the first time this season. "I'm 50-50 right now.… You want to keep him in there because at any time he can put three hits together, but I thought it was a good time."

Moving Hanley back to leadoff is something I favor, but our good friends at The South Florida Fan Blog are of a different opinion. That's cool. If every Marlins fan agreed on everything, then it would make bar talk pretty boring.

But I will layout my part of the discussion:

Hanley leading off: .325/.395/.591

Hanley batting third: .268/.386/.357

If Fredi decides to keep hitting him third, it doesn't mean he can't or won't improve on the numbers.

Of course, there is this:

Last season, Ramirez went through a similar downturn when Gonzalez experimented with him in the three hole. Gonzalez attributed it to a normal slump Ramirez might have gone through regardless of his place in the order.

Maybe it's a coincidence, but last season Ramirez moved into the third spot in mid-May through most of June. As a rookie, Ramirez had a 0-for-29 skid that started June 7. Perhaps this is just Ramirez's toughest time of the season.

Maybe so. But he was moved to third in the order at the first of May this year. Then again, he could just be a half-month early this season.

The one consistent positive part of the Marlins game this season has been the offense and it seems a little silly to me to try and tweak it. It's kinda like after being flooded due to a hurricane and dusting the top of the bookshelves to clean up when you're walking in ankle deep water.

In my opinion, just put him back at leadoff and be done with it. There are more pressing issues at hand.

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Persuasive Argument

Craig,

You might be convincing me. Those number differentials are pretty stark.

I’m torn, because I like the way the lineup shapes around Hanley in the 3rd spot, but he’s been much worse. Maybe it’s worth moving him back to leadoff just to shake things up in his mind. And thanks for the reference!

by ads109 on May 22, 2008 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Convinced

You can see how I came around:

http://thesouthfloridafan.blogspot.com/2008/05/rethinking-hanley.html

Good job. You probably got straight A’s on those persuasive essays back in high school.

by ads109 on May 22, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I do not agree

I saw these numbers on a florida marlins forum. Here is the direct link: http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=81792&view=findpost&p=1626518

“Nope. His slump has nothing to do with his spot in the lineup.

I hate to bring these numbers up again but…

Twenty-eight games in the 1 spot:
CODE
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
—---—----—---—---—-----—-—-—--+
28 129 115 23 37 5 1 8 19 10 3 24 4 0 0 1 9 3 .322 .395 .591 .986

First nine games in the 3 spot(SD, LAD, WSH):
CODE
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
—---—----—---—---—-----—-—-—--+
9 38 28 10 11 1 0 0 2 9 0 4 0 0 1 0 4 1 .393 .526 .429 .955

Last seven games (CIN, KC, ARI):
CODE
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
—---—----—---—---—-----—-—-—--+
7 32 28 3 4 1 0 1 2 3 0 11 0 0 1 1 0 0 .143 .219 .286 .505

I highly doubt it took him 9 games to realize “Oh, wait, I don’t like the 3 spot”. He’s just slumping, he’ll come out of it, no matter where he is hitting. Our lineup had been more productive with him in the 3 spot than in the 1 spot before his slump.”

As you can see he is just having a normal slump. If Fredi moves him back to leadoff I will be upset. The lineup is much stronger with a normal Hanley in the 3 spot. Give him some time. Everyone slumps.

by kev24k on May 22, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs