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How to justify the Marlins start to the season

Justifying why your predictions were off about the Marlins seems to be all the rage today and everyone is using strength of schedule.

Not surprisingly the Philadelphia Daily News is doing their best to explain away the Marlins start to the season.  And I would expect nothing less .

Consider: Only three of the Marlins' 23 wins have come against teams that entered yesterday with a winning record. (The Phillies, Mets and Braves all have eight wins against winning teams.) Furthermore, they are 8-1 against the Nationals, meaning more than a quarter of their wins have come against a team that is tied for the second-worst record in the National League. Heading into yesterday, the Marlins had won seven straight, but those seven have come against three teams with a combined record of 47-66.

Let's see, you take the three teams the Marlins won seven straight against and factor out the Marlins, how are they doing against the rest of the league.

The three teams are the Nationals, Brewers and Padres.  If you take away the Marlins wins and losses, their records are as follows:

Nationals, 15-15

Brewers, 17-15

Padres. 13-23

One team is playing at .500 against the league, another has a winning record, and the Padres...just suck.  But in the Marlins defense, the Fish faced Peavy and Maddux in that series.

Our good friend at The South Florida Fan blog breaks down all of the teams that the Marlins have played this season .  Last night's games are not included.

But like I said, I completely expect a Phillie's hometown paper to skew the data anyway possible to make the Phillies look good.  I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't.

But the biggest justifiers of their preseason predictions is Baseball Prospectus.  If you didn't see their predictions for the Marlins, ask GameFish, I'm sure she will be happy to lend you her copy of Baseball Prospectus 2008.

Anyway, here is what they, or to be more exact, Joe Sheehan has to say now:

Miracle in Miami? 

The article is in the premium material part of the site, so if you don't subscribe to Baseball Prospectus, which I happily do, you can't see it.

Basically it says that the Marlins will regress to the mean, the pitchers don't strikeout enough hitters and all of the good stuff is happening because the Marlins are playing a soft schedule and they will soon be beaten up by the big boys, as predicted.

It wouldn't be very hard to beat the article up, but I have a good relationship with BP, or at least I did before I wrote this.

There is little doubt that the Marlins will regress to the mean, but that doesn't necessarily imply what BP calculated as the mean in the preseason, is the actual mean.

 

 

 

 

 

0 recs  |  Comment 9 comments

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early picks

24,523

hanley

volquez ip < 4.1

I'm doin the Fish again. (Yeah, yeah, yeah.)

by colombo259 on May 13, 2008 9:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to loan out my copy, Craig,

but I’m afraid in its present form, it would only be useful as confetti. That is unless somebody out there loves the challenge of a nice 6,000,000-piece puzzle.

by GameFish on May 13, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

justify

A little bit of projection.
They have 38 games under their belt at a start of .605. There are a 124 games left.
Here’s a chart on how they could finish the season starting with their current clip.

124 games @ .605 = 75 more wins = 98-64 record = .605

.605 = 98-64 = .605
.500 = 85-77 = .525
.400 = 73-89 = .451

.300 is a stretch so I’m not including it. .400 is pretty bad. Not even the lowly nationals are that bad this year. Yet they’d end the season better than they did last year (71-91). Getting back down to .500 seems more likely. At that rate they’d end the season amidst the playoff hunt (would have been 4 games behind last year). Not many people predicted they’d even be as good as last year (I was one of them), much less competing at the end of the season but that’s exactly where it looks like we’ll be. If by chance they do end up winning 98, that’d be better than any team since 2005. Just saying.

Here’s another way of looking at it.
Last year the Phillies won the division and San Diego and Colorado tied for the wild card with 89 wins. If that’s the bench-mark then the Marlins need 66 more wins to make it. I’m starting a countdown. So they only need to do better than 66-58 (.532) the rest of the season. That’s good, but it’s not impossible.

Let’s go Fish!

*use these calculations at your own risk. It’s still early and I’m “working” at the same time.

by brickell on May 13, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I read the BP article

Pretty dismal outlook. That was a lot of effort crunching numbers to make us fans feel bad. Apparently, the only reason for us to watch the Fish is to see when our bullpen, starters and defense to implode, since they’ve been precarious all season, and only successful because of pure luck.

I can’t say I know what all of their metrics and projections mean, but I do know one thing: Stats are great, but they can’t predict the future. That’s why they play the game on the field, not on paper.

Seriously, why can’t our team have some time in the sun? Why so quick to piss on our campfire? Honestly, I could care less what your projections have to say, I think this team can be successful this year and have a winning season. And I’ll enjoy watching them the whole way.

by Matt Wilson on May 13, 2008 11:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's how it always is with us.

People get their kicks by dumping on us, as if we don’t “deserve” to ever have a good team. If it’s not the Baseball Tonight people ridiculing us, it’s articles like this in BP.

It kind of makes me think of this:

Jake Taylor: Well then I guess there’s only one thing left to do.
Roger Dorn: What’s that?
Jake Taylor: Win the whole [f’ing] thing.

by Fishcrazy on May 13, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

in BP’s defense, there is no bias there… they use facts and stats

that being said, (as a BP subscriber) they take the fun out of baseball sometimes

FutureFish.org

by Ramp on May 13, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The good news

The good news is that unlike college football, what these jokers at the newspapers think has no bearing on the end result. If the Marlins are good they will win and nobody will be able to claim it was because of strength of schedule.

The Marlins don’t need to apologize for beating the teams the schedule makers put in front of them.

by FishFan-GatorMan on May 13, 2008 2:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd actually be interested...

...to see how one would “beat up” on the BP article. Believe me, nobody is soaking up the start of this season more than me, but if you can honestly look at the peripherals the pitchers (yes, including the bullpen) are putting up, at the record in one-run games, at the RS/RA numbers outside of that blowout of the Nats, and tell me this is a .600 team, you’re practicing outright delusion.

And the thing is, for as easy as it is to hunker down and take on this “us against the world” attitude whenever someone says something negative, when the season comes to a close and the 82-win Marlins are in fourth place, we’re going to be pointing at this guy’s inevitable injury and that guy’s freak injury and “imagine if we had the real rotation healthy”—and it’s going to be the exact other side of the coin that all these schedule/pitching/defense articles reside on.

All of these things make up the game of baseball, and pretending some don’t matter when the chips are up, and harping on others when the chips are down, are the same practice. You can call out people now, but I’d venture it’s a lot easier to do so knowing that there’s really nobody to do the same to us come September, justified as they would be.

And yes, of course this big ball of negativity had to be my return post. I couldn’t just pop in for a Rally Beer Run… no, I had to go and ostracize myself right out of the gate.

by dan 2.0 on May 13, 2008 3:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Road Ahead

First of all I think the Fish could be in for a rough time when they face the AL, but so will the rest of the NL, so that doesn’t matter as far as the race.

Also, they have been getting lucky in close games. Their +13 runs is a much better indicator of their ability then their +8 games. But the games count and if they only go .500, they should be in the thick of things in September.

P.S. This SOS business is also kind of useless this early since the other teams have not played that many games either.

by elricsi on May 13, 2008 5:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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